Anson Mount as Pike SAVES This Show! Wow.

[Midquest]

Wow, that's interesting. Even among devoted fans of the show, she's not most people's favorite character. I have nothing personal against SM-G, but the general consensus seems to be that Burnham comes across as having a somewhat limited emotional range, mostly focused around "dour," and that her capabilities, motivations, and decisions have tended to be a little too obviously driven by the needs of the plot. What are you seeing that gives you a different impression?

This wasn't aimed at me, but I'll jump in and say that SMG's performance makes the show for me. I find that she shows amazing range and subtlety. For instance, the play of emotions in the elevator scene between killing the captain and stepping onto the bridge--it's a remarkable piece of acting with so many layers.

I also find that she's had an exceptional arc for a single season of Trek, and I loved how her major turning point was something as simple as "Whoops, now that I see these Klingons in their home environment, I can't hate them!" which tells us so much about why she made prior decisions, and the Trekkian humanity she embraces. I don't find her arc inconsistent--I find that she's got a lot of baggage--bias against Klingons, childhood trauma, a lack of socialization, etc.--and we get those layers pulled back one by one. Even when we think she's fixed herself around the middle of the season, she's still operating from a place of xenophobia that she has to roll back, beginning when meeting the Klingons in the MU, developing when Lorca reveals himself, and finally actualizing when she visits Kronos.

I do think at times her performance is better than what's she's given, and I'd love to see SMG get to play a wider range (she's clearly capable). But on the whole, the fact that she travels such a distance to the Burnham who smiles at the end of the season pleases me. I find her story sensibly plotted and realistic, even if some aspects of the season moved her through parts of her arc too quickly or slowly.

 

[eschaton]

Sure, she totally has limited emotional range and is often dour. That's perfectly intentional. I really like her. She has a nice mix of human emotion and cold logic, combined with being somewhat socially awkward. She reminds me of Sherlock Holmes a bit, actually (Burnham is less of an asshole though.) Sure, her characterisation suffers from bad writing, but what in this series doesn't? But yeah, she's the best main character since TNG.

She's good when she is allowed to talk like a normal human being. Hopefully they'll stop giving her those weird long-form monologues in S2. The show comes to a screeching halt whenever that happens.

 

[Noname Given]

^^^
That still looks way better than the 'disco(and I mean real discotheque late 1970ies era ) -pajama' uniforms they gave Kirik and Co. in ST:TMP.

 

[Longinus]

She's good when she is allowed to talk like a normal human being. Hopefully they'll stop giving her those weird long-form monologues in S2. The show comes to a screeching halt whenever that happens.

No, I love those! Best parts of the show! (Granted, the one in the final episode didn't work, but neither did anything else.)

 

[Noname Given]

The overall vibe I get from Discovery in general is that it's too "try-hard". It panders. Even though S2 looks to be tonally very different from S1, it's still pandering, placing bets on a "hook" (in this case, lighter Kelvin-style humor).

I don't get the sense that the show has the confidence to be its own thing. It's a corporate "product" and nothing more than the sum of its corporate-agreed-upon parts.

So, ptretty much like ST:TNG Seasons 1 and 2 back in 1987 - 1988 (You want to talk pandering, in Season One of TNG they had TOS props and models in the backgrounds of a lot of scenes. They were basically screaming - "No, really, we're STAR TREK!!!111!!!")

 

[lawman]

I really like her. She has a nice mix of human emotion and cold logic, combined with being somewhat socially awkward. She reminds me of Sherlock Holmes a bit, actually (Burnham is less of an asshole though.) Sure, her characterisation suffers from bad writing, but what in this series doesn't? But yeah, she's the best main character since TNG.

How are you defining "main" here? IMHO the only really good characters on TNG were Picard and Data, and I attribute that more to the actors' talent than to the writing; I think most of the ensemble on DS9 (especially Kira, Odo, and Bashir) were way more interesting than most of the crew on TNG. As for DSC, I liked Tilly from the moment she first entered a scene, Stamets has a lot of charisma as well (although he's been written very inconsistently), and of course Lorca was great until they character-assassinated him.

I don't actively dislike Burnham. I just think her character is a little too obviously constructed to fit the needs of the plot.

 

[XCV330]

She's good when she is allowed to talk like a normal human being. Hopefully they'll stop giving her those weird long-form monologues in S2. The show comes to a screeching halt whenever that happens.

monologues are my only complaint for the character, and the people who repeatedly wrote those for her are all gone, now.
Her "this is what we stand for" thing at the end of Season 1, how much better that could have been as just a dialogue between her and Sarek or another member of the crew reflecting on where they'd been. Even better if much of that is non-verbal.

Sometimes I think screenwriters are afraid to just let actors act. In the case of the episode finale, whoever was in charge by that point should have sent it back to the writers and said "not redoing the Into Darkness ending, fix this shit" but unfortunately the writer and showrunner were both involved in that one, albeit Goldsman only in a cameo, and neither might have been able to see the wood for the trees.

I enjoyed Discovery Season 1 quite a bit, but I do feel the writers need to handle the Burnham character better at times. She was well done in Lethe and through most of the MU arc. Curiously most of those episodes she shines in, she wasn't having her scenery chewed up by Lorca.

 

[Noname Given]

It's never a good idea to dig into the story logic of GR's envelope for "The Menagerie" - it's improvised and makes no real sense.

It borrows A LOT from "Forbidden Planet" - Instead of a machine and a Scientist dredging up monsters from the subconscious; we have an entire race of beings with the ability to dredge up and manipulate thought. There's the aftermath of a lost ship/lone survivor on a distant mostly unknown planet, etc.

 

[Marynator]

I feel the plot of Discovery more focused around Michael instead of the other way, and I felt she had a lot of emotions, I especially loved her tender scenes with Ash when she was falling in love with him, and any time she's interacting with Sarek you can really see her acting through her eyes. I felt she really took command of every part she's in and no one really ever outshone her in my opinion. I feel really she just may be the best actor/actress since Patrick Stewart, but her character is so very interesting and I love seeing her story and what all she's going through.

I'm really impressed how she balances her Vulcan upbringing but she's still human, and I don't know why she'd be all bubbly considering like she only recently lost her loved mentor, and she feels much is her fault, and she was really willingly facing lifetime in prison, you know? With all she's going through, how is she really supposed to behave? I see her as a woman who's going through a great deal of pain, but she's still very idealistic and she never broke or forgot who she is, and I'm really amazed by her strength.

Oh dear, I'm afraid I just don't understand what you mean about Gabriel being character assassinated, like I think what we learn about him really explains so much of what was going on and how off he seemed all series, right? I'm really glad I knew his twist ahead of time, because like I really appreciated when he's talking to his Admiral friend and you can just see he doesn't know about his past and he's trying to bluff through it, lol!

 

[Longinus]

How are you defining "main" here? IMHO the only really good characters on TNG were Picard and Data, and I attribute that more to the actors' talent than to the writing; I think most of the ensemble on DS9 (especially Kira, Odo, and Bashir) were way more interesting than most of the crew on TNG. As for DSC, I liked Tilly from the moment she first entered a scene, Stamets has a lot of charisma as well (although he's been written very inconsistently), and of course Lorca was great until they character-assassinated him.

I don't know... the main characters are the ones who have their names on the intro?

But yeah, I like Burnham a lot. I like that sort of characters who are usually cool and collected but still have an emotional side too. And Martin-Green is doing great job, especially considering that this was just the first season.

 

[XCV330]

It borrows A LOT from "Forbidden Planet" - Instead of a machine and a Scientist dredging up monsters from the subconscious; we have an entire race of beings with the ability to dredge up and manipulate thought. There's the aftermath of a lost ship/lone survivor on a distant mostly unknown planet, etc.

Star Trek is basically an unlicensed spin-off of Forbidden Planet. Lost in Space is the other one. They both seem to be doing well. MGM should consider a Forbidden Planet series.

 

[Longinus]

Oh dear, I'm afraid I just don't understand what you mean about Gabriel being character assassinated, like I think what we learn about him really explains so much of what was going on and how off he seemed all series, right? I'm really glad I knew his twist ahead of time, because like I really appreciated when he's talking to his Admiral friend and you can just see he doesn't know about his past and he's trying to bluff through it, lol!

A lot of people (me included) feel that Lorca would have been a better character if he had just been fucked up by war trauma, rather than an evil mirror doppelgänger.

 

[Marynator]

A lot of people (me included) feel that Lorca would have been a better character if he had just been fucked up by war trauma, rather than an evil mirror doppelgänger.

I feel I like him better this way, I mean I feel it really explains more why he's so war focused, and like remember how he just didn't care at all about their space whale in that episode with Harry Mudd? And I feel it really makes sense why he wanted Michael on board at first, everything was really set up from the beginning, you can really notice when watching from the start knowing what he is, it's not like a couple seasons in they totally just made some weird decision, right? His whole story was planned right from day one. I guess what I mean really, is I don't feel you can call that "assassination", rather just his character story?

 

[XCV330]

I feel I like him better this way, I mean I feel it really explains more why he's so war focused, and like remember how he just didn't care at all about their space whale in that episode with Harry Mudd? And I feel it really makes sense why he wanted Michael on board at first, everything was really set up from the beginning, you can really notice when watching from the start knowing what he is, it's not like a couple seasons in they totally just made some weird decision, right? His whole story was planned right from day one. I guess what I mean really, is I don't feel you can call that "assassination", rather just his character story?

I think they made a good decision making him from the Mirror Universe because if we ever DO see Prime Lorca, then we REALLY get to see someone whose had some major war trauma. Prime Lorca is liable to be far more messed up than his counterpart.

 

[lawman]

I especially loved her tender scenes with Ash when she was falling in love with him, and any time she's interacting with Sarek you can really see her acting through her eyes.

Fascinating how differently people can read the same scenes. FWIW I'd agree that her scenes with Sarek were among her high points, but OTOH I never saw a single iota of chemistry between her and Ash. That whole "romance" struck me as incredibly forced, from beginning to end.

I'm really impressed how she balances her Vulcan upbringing but she's still human, and I don't know why she'd be all bubbly considering like she only recently lost her loved mentor, and she feels much is her fault

I'm certainly not saying she should have been bubbly. I'm just saying the writers (and actress) never really seemed to have a consistent vision of whether she was genuinely adept at Vulcan composure and logic, or someone suffering from PTSD, or just an emotionally immature human... not to mention any clear sense of how much she could and would have opened up her emotional repertoire in seven years aboard the Shenzou.

I like that sort of characters who are usually cool and collected but still have an emotional side too.

Well, sure. That's pretty much the definition of Spock. However, I'm hard-pressed to think of anyone in Trek history who's pulled that off as well as Leonard Nimoy, and the comparison doesn't do SM-G any favors.

 

[Longinus]

Fascinating how differently people can read the same scenes. FWIW I'd agree that her scenes with Sarek were among her high points, but OTOH I never saw a single iota of chemistry between her and Ash. That whole "romance" struck me as incredibly forced, from beginning to end.

With that I have to agree. The romance didn't work for me. She had better chemistry with Tilly.

Well, sure. That's pretty much the definition of Spock. However, I'm hard-pressed to think of anyone in Trek history who's pulled that off as well as Leonard Nimoy, and the comparison doesn't do SM-G any favors.

Not like Spock. That is completely another level of emotional restraint.

 

[Marynator]

Oh dear, I just loved her romance with Ash, I feel she and he were drawn together because both could sense each other was damaged like they are. I mean I felt a lot of heat and passion from both of them, especially Michael who's so very reserved, do we know if she's ever really even been in love before? I felt her vulnerabilities were really coming out with Ash, and his reveal to her about how he isn't really himself in the mirror universe was just amazing to me and so very heartbreaking, and I felt you can really see just how deep her pain is through her acting.

I wouldn't expect her to really be a Vulcan, because she isn't, right? I mean, I'd feel more surprised if a human could like become perfectly Vulcan immediately, I'd think you'd need at least several generations of really strict practice and upbringing, but you can totally tell she tries, and I just love how she blends her Vulcan attitudes with her humanity, and of course her humanity wins, but she doesn't break easily at all because of how strong she is. I feel her behavior is just absolutely perfect right now for everything she's been going through over these last six months especially?

 

[eschaton]

How are you defining "main" here? IMHO the only really good characters on TNG were Picard and Data, and I attribute that more to the actors' talent than to the writing; I think most of the ensemble on DS9 (especially Kira, Odo, and Bashir) were way more interesting than most of the crew on TNG. As for DSC, I liked Tilly from the moment she first entered a scene, Stamets has a lot of charisma as well (although he's been written very inconsistently), and of course Lorca was great until they character-assassinated him.

Worf improved massively as TNG went on. As did Micheal Dorn's portrayal of Worf. But he only really got to be a compelling character on DS9.

I don't actively dislike Burnham. I just think her character is a little too obviously constructed to fit the needs of the plot.

Burnham is fine, but she's not a strong enough character to be a lead.

Oh dear, I'm afraid I just don't understand what you mean about Gabriel being character assassinated, like I think what we learn about him really explains so much of what was going on and how off he seemed all series, right? I'm really glad I knew his twist ahead of time, because like I really appreciated when he's talking to his Admiral friend and you can just see he doesn't know about his past and he's trying to bluff through it, lol!

I had no problem with him being from the MU. But making him a total shitheel was unneeded. It would have been much better if he ended up being "heroic" by the standards of the MU. Like, he still wanted to be emperor, but he really did want to reform the empire and open it up a bit more to non-humans. Burnham's choice between Georgiou and Lorca would thus be more complicated, and even if she went against him, there would be an element of tragedy to it, rather than "rah rah, we defeated the bad guy!"

Basically, give me a show without easy answers, not a black hat to be gunned down in the final scene.

 

[fireproof78]

Sure, she totally has limited emotional range and is often dour. That's perfectly intentional. I really like her. She has a nice mix of human emotion and cold logic, combined with being somewhat socially awkward. She reminds me of Sherlock Holmes a bit, actually (Burnham is less of an asshole though.) Sure, her characterisation suffers from bad writing, but what in this series doesn't? But yeah, she's the best main character since TNG.

A lot of people (me included) feel that Lorca would have been a better character if he had just been fucked up by war trauma, rather than an evil mirror doppelgänger.

We agreed again.

Well, sure. That's pretty much the definition of Spock. However, I'm hard-pressed to think of anyone in Trek history who's pulled that off as well as Leonard Nimoy, and the comparison doesn't do SM-G any favors.

That's why I don't compare. It's an exercise in futility.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

Oh dear, I'm feeling "Saves the Show" seems very silly and especially premature. I really don't see how Discovery needs "saving" at all, I mean it's not like he's done anything to help get its second season, right? So right now my opinion is Sonequa Martin-Green is totally making this show, I think her character is just absolutely fantastic and maybe one of the best lead characters in Star Trek ever, I'm continuing to watch Discovery because of her.

You also don't know what role Captain Pike's really going to have here, he may be a mostly minor character who's just in every episode, but I still feel this show's going to follow Michael really for the most part, this is really her story first and foremost, and we're going to see things about her and her relationship with her foster brother. I don't believe for a moment Michael's going to be sidelined and you'll suddenly see a Captain Pike show, and I'll also be extremely surprised if he has more focus time than Tilly, Stamets, or Saru.

I think his uniform looks cute, I like his collar, I feel it's an interesting look and the colors have a lovely vibrancy to them.

What 'saves the show' really means is that it finally has another male lead that Kane_Steel approves of who will hopefully take screen time away from Sonequa Martin-Green/Burnham who he dislikes.