And The Children Shall Lead...

[Maurice]

Apropos of nothing, I just read the De Forest Research memo on this episode and the spelling of "Marcos Twelve" is Marcos with an "o" not a "u".

Some of the episode's defects—notably Mr, Beli—were spotted by Roddenberry and related to Freiberger. presumably after screening a rough cut since the episode wrapped 24 days earlier.

RODDENBERRY COMMENTS ON AND THE CHILDREN SHALL LEAD, July 29, 1968 (Excerpt)

Missed extras also here in planet surfacing. Unbelievable that only three senior officers are down here for burial, etc. We could have seen technicians in background doing things and they would not have interfered with dramatic scene.

Spock’s dialogue pace needs speeding up. He seems to get slower and slower with each episode.

Angel’s physical appearance doesn’t come off. What can we do? Voice?

Are we planning to loop him with someone else?

Cut Beli’s lines in half all the way through script.​

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Apropos of nothing, I just read the De Forest Research memo on this episode and the spelling of "Marcos Twelve" is Marcos with an "o" not a "u".

Some of the episode's defects—notably Mr, Beli—were spotted by Roddenberry and related to Freiberger. presumable after screening a rough cut since the episode wrapped 24 days earlier.

RODDENBERRY COMMENTS ON “AND THE CHILDREN SHALL LEAD, July 29, 1968 (Excerpt)

Missed extras also here in planet surfacing. Unbelievable that only three senior officers are down here for burial, etc. We could have seen technicians in background doing things and they would not have interfered with dramatic scene.

Spock’s dialogue pace needs speeding up. He seems to get slower and slower with each episode.

Angel’s physical appearance doesn’t come off. What can we do? Voice?

Are we planning to loop him with someone else?

Cut Beli’s lines in half all the way through script.​

I'm often a critic of GR, but when he's right, he's right! He had a good eye for this stuff.

 

[johnnybear]

I've never understood all the hate for Belli! He's obviously not a great actor but he's not really that bad either! He's talking very softly and gently to a group of children that he has given powers to and he wants them to take over the starship, killing any that won't play as he says it! The only problem I have is how Kirk knew his name was Gorgon?
JB

 

[Timo]

Was it? The moniker was apparently given by Kirk, yes, but the critter itself never indicated any familiarity with it. It's apparently just a random insult Kirk derives from a legend he (thinks he) is familiar with: the beast looks like a Gorgon to him, or behaves like one.

Does the thing look or behave like the Gorgons of Greek lore (Medusa was one, and in some takes the only one)? No head of snakes, no turning of people into stone. But Kirk names the monstrosity before seeing it with his own eyes, and in any case must realize that what he eventually sees is a pleasant fake to hide the true nature of the beast.

The behavior he knows of consists of this:

- Making people do things against their will
- Making people frightened with its presence
- Wanting to spread terror by traveling

The behavior associated with everybody's favorite Gorgon, Medusa, is like this:

- Causing terror
- Being mortal to those averting the terror (Perseus did it with mirrors)
- Sprouting out winged horses and whatnot when dying
- Also, her severed head was a handy weapon, still capable of getting people stoned with terror

Kirk probably wasn't fantasizing about the upcoming death of the beast, though. The terror-inducing aspect might be what he was going after, this actually being a fairly good choice.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[mb22]

I'm often a critic of GR, but when he's right, he's right! He had a good eye for this stuff.

I didn't know he was this involved during the third season.

 

[UnknownSample]

Sometimes a fist is just a fist.

 

[Phaser Two]

I've never understood all the hate for Belli! He's obviously not a great actor but he's not really that bad either! He's talking very softly and gently to a group of children that he has given powers to and he wants them to take over the starship, killing any that won't play as he says it! The only problem I have is how Kirk knew his name was Gorgon?
JB

I don't have a problem with him either. I think he's fine or even better than fine when talking to the children, and his confrontation with Kirk on the bridge is done pretty well for someone who wasn't a trained actor. He may have looked/felt more stilted because of the getup, which after all didn't allow him to move his arms!

 

[johnnybear]

Maybe the reference to the marauders of Epsilon Indi named the aliens as Gorgons?
JB

 

[Maurice]

I didn't know he was this involved during the third season.

He was, just he moved off the lot to MGM, but he still gave memos and feedback although he largely left/abandoned the show to Fred Freiberger.

 

[Commishsleer]

I've never understood all the hate for Belli! He's obviously not a great actor but he's not really that bad either! He's talking very softly and gently to a group of children that he has given powers to and he wants them to take over the starship, killing any that won't play as he says it! The only problem I have is how Kirk knew his name was Gorgon?
JB

He's just an awful actor.
I reckon I myself could have said the lines better and would have looked better in the Mu Mu shower curtain.

I'm not saying replacing him would have fixed the entire episode but it would have been a good start.

 

[Poltargyst]

What I don´t get...with all the censorship going on during that time period...the fistpumpings uhm..."sexual undertones" somehow went under the radar? Escpecially in case of the oldest boy it looks as if he´s pumping something entirly different than just his fist....

It wasn't intended to be sexual, and the average tv watcher in the 60's wouldn't have taken it that way either.

 

[Marsden]

It wasn't intended to be sexual, and the average tv watcher in the 60's wouldn't have taken it that way either.

I never did.

Comparing it to hammering sounds like a better description but I just thought it was a "TV" thing because we have to be shown when someone is using a "power". Same think with the sound effects and music cues, there's always an indication of "something" rather than risk the audience having to wonder what's happening.

 

[gottacook]

I didn't know he was this involved during the third season.

He was, just he moved off the lot to MGM, but he still gave memos and feedback although he largely left/abandoned the show to Fred Freiberger.

Correct. As I've mentioned in other threads, when I visited USC in 1985 and spent an afternoon looking through the George Duning archives and taking notes, there were memos from Roddenberry critiquing early drafts of "Is There in Truth No Beauty?" and "The Empath," which both followed "Children" in production order.

 

[johnnybear]

It wasn't intended to be sexual, and the average tv watcher in the 60's wouldn't have taken it that way either.

Can't say that ever occurred to me either!
JB

 

[Shawnster]

Never crossed my mind, either. Of course, neither did the phallus stalactite from What Are Little Girls...

 

[johnnybear]

Never crossed my mind, either. Of course, neither did the phallus stalactite from What Are Little Girls...

I never saw that one either, until I was reading an article about the scene with photograph to boot later on!
JB

 

[Commishsleer]

Never crossed my mind, either. Of course, neither did the phallus stalactite from What Are Little Girls...

Yes I didn't see it at the time either but now I can;t look at that stalactite without giggling like a school boy.
I actually did think the fist pumping action was strange on recent viewing but just think like the stactite that no-one was thinking that way at the time it was made.

I think of the original Lost in Space where Will was always leaving for the day in the company of a grown man alone. You couldn't really have that scenario playing out on a series today (admittedly I haven't watch the new Lost in Space,) Of course nothing bad happened except when Dr Smith sold out Will to any Space Aliens that threatened him or offered him money.
The 60s were a more innocent time I think.

 

[johnnybear]

People are more suspicious these days and rightly so where children are concerned but back then it was definitely a more innocent age!
JB

 

[Norsehound]

Maybe the reference to the marauders of Epsilon Indi named the aliens as Gorgons?
JB

I may have to watch this one again, didn't Kirk fill in Spock on the nature of the marauders? I figured if he knew, he'd know what the Gorgon was and didn't have to explain it for the audience.

---

If I can, I watch this one after Catspaw on Halloween because it's so damn creepy. Sure, it's dead time with the kids in the arboretum and they're a bit annoying but.... they convinced the crew to beam two security guards into space- overcoming any technical overrides that prevent this kind of thing, And the crew kept going about their business.

At least when Charlie was roaming the ship everyone knew he was terrible and was set against him. With the kids, their grasp was so complete they could have the crew commit unwitting murder and go about their business as if nothing happened. All from innocents! I think this is the greatest loss of control from a malevolent entity Kirk faces in the 5 year mission- because his crew don't think anything is wrong.

I personally didn't mind Belli as the Gorgon- his stilted and whimsical performance accentuated how otherworldly the creature was to adults. To kids, he's their only friend in the universe, and probably worked a lot of spinning on the kids while their parents were dying. It was a different thing to have someone else, a stranger, replay the incident from an outside perspective.

I wouldn't call this the worst episode- there's definitely further down than this one. Let That Be Your Last Battlefield is preachy without plot advancement, and Spock's Brain doesn't have the fridge-logic ramifications here in Children Shall Lead.

 

[UnknownSample]

"Plot advancement"... I guess it's good that I don't know what that is or why I would want it. I must not require it, since Battlefield is one of the standouts of s3 to me.