I'm not going to go into further detail here about the evil bitch - but yes, her actions have gone way beyond "recognizable human motivations" such as (for example) greed. Sorry if I was unclear about that. She is proof that a person living today can be a conduit of "just because" evil, and you're lucky not to have (yet) encountered such a person close up.
And The Children Shall Lead...
- Thread starter Qonundrum
- Start date
I'm not going to go into further detail here about the evil bitch - but yes, her actions have gone way beyond "recognizable human motivations" such as (for example) greed. Sorry if I was unclear about that. She is proof that a person living today can be a conduit of "just because" evil, and you're lucky not to have (yet) encountered such a person close up.
Excellent example. At the focus here is the recognizability of evil. If it is alien, then we may treat it with disdain and ridicule (as long as it does not touch upon our own lives) or superstition or irrational fear or hatred or whatnot. And Gorgan can be alien evil, just like the evil in madmen, that is, people who deviate from mainstream humanity enough to give us the urge to disassociate ourselves.
Trek seldom deals with aliens. Most space monsters have mainstream human mindsets. But that is the moral cartoon approach of little interest - dealing with true aliens, such as the madmen among us today, would be the approach that actually makes us face moral questions that would not have been settled millennia ago and carved in stone tablets.
Timo Saloniemi
Trek seldom deals with aliens. Most space monsters have mainstream human mindsets. But that is the moral cartoon approach of little interest - dealing with true aliens, such as the madmen among us today, would be the approach that actually makes us face moral questions that would not have been settled millennia ago and carved in stone tablets.
Timo Saloniemi
Evil defined would be a person who hurts someone and enjoys their pain or a group of people! He may get a sadistic pleasure out of it as well! But mostly I'd say it was people covering their own back or just obsessed by their own lives and thoughts and are unable to be like others that gets them that name!
JB
JB
I liked that scene or at least the concept of it-that the only way to win the kids over was to visually, immediately contrast the families together and happy and then the parents dead, if there wasn't that direct immediate contrast (and there previously wasn't) the kids had become totally alienated from their parents.
I also liked, though they went on too long, the showing of Uhura's and especially Sulu's fears. Giant knifes in space is in a basic sense goofy and yet worked pretty effectively as a paralyzing fear. OTOH the kids magic fist-pumping is initially somewhat effectively creepy and then grows more and more ridiculous and annoying with more repetition.
When they cast Craig Hundley as Tommy Starnes, was there ever a time they considered making him reprise his role as Peter Kirk instead (as they made Kevin Riley reappear when Bruce Hyde was originally cast in the role of "Robert Daiken" for TCOTK)? That would have added a whole new dimension to it, don't you think?
The character of Kevin Riley was only used in two episodes of the first season while Peter Kirk only appeared in the briefest of scenes in Operation:Annihilate, not forgetting the excised scene at the conclusion of the episode wasn't included and that his second role as Tommy Starnes was in the third season long enough for viewers to have forgotten his other part!
JB
JB
True. Just suppose, though, that they had been one and the same instead of two different characters. First of all, that's a lot to heap on one kid (being orphaned twice). But aside from that, Kirk's family relationship with him would have added a new element - (irrational - he couldn't have known) guilt over having sent him away to face death again.
That would invoke the "small universe" problem, where we happen to keep meeting the same few people, or just the right people, out in the vastness of space. It was quite a stretch for the Enterprise to encounter Harry Mudd a second time. Having any member of Kirk's own family pop up on Triacus, or let's say as one of the Space Hippies, would really be pushing it. And come to think of it, they did push plausibility by having Chekov's old girlfriend show up in deep space, right where Chekov happened to be at the moment.
On the other hand, meeting back up with a Starfleet officer would have been okay, because the Enterprise is part of Starfleet and you could say they move in the same circles.
Mudd has to keep moving generally, to avoid getting caught by authorities, or hide by lying low in one place. The crew of the Enterprise met him a second time because he lured them to his planet. He ran into them a third time because he can't stay out of trouble for long, and they were looking for him specifically.
They Shoot Horses, Don't They?
Kirk and some Klingon commanders seemed to know each other but that could be from dossiers and briefings! I never see the same people twice in the town where I live and I've lived there fifty years nearly!!! 
JB
JB
Kirk and some Klingon commanders seemed to know each other but that could be from dossiers and briefings! I never see the same people twice in the town where I live and I've lived there fifty years nearly!!!
JB
Right. One of the approximately five lines of dialogue in Enterprise Incident that I actually like makes clear that the Romulans have some intelligence concerning members of Starfleet. And given the ridiculous nature of the Kirk/Spock/Starfleet plan in that ep, it seems - but is naturally never spelled out on screen because we needed more faux-seduction scenes zzzzzzzzzzzzzz - that they knew that this particular Romulan commander would be around and in charge of the situation.
Romulans have taken Vulcan aliases to spy on the Federation, no doubt. Easier than passing yourself off as any other kind of alien who isn't a green blood.
It's a good job that Sub commander Tal wasn't being promoted that week is all I can say!
JB
The way I reason out the improbable events in this episode is that somehow the Federation had planted some info with Romulan agents that Spock/Vulcan was dissatisfied that there were few non-human captains in Starfleet or at least in the big ships. Maybe through a double agent revealing that this was a weak point on the Enterprise. Then while Spock and Kirk were in the turbo-life Kirk would have said something to Spock like "we are doing this for the Federation. We didn't account for a female commander" Maybe Spock would suggest they swap roles and Kirk would have assured him saying that he was sure Spock could do it and to use his instincts. Then Spock would have said something like "I'll attempt to follow your example" and maybe say some last words as friends knowing that this could be their last mission.
But of course there are many planets with native people who seem to be visually identical with Caucasian Earth humans. Unless they have internal differences that would show up in even the most casual scans such aliens could easily pass themselves off as Earth humans. And considering how common such people are, it seems likely that both the Klingon empire and the Romulan empire, for example, should be full of such potential spies and infiltrators. To say nothing of hiring some human looking persons who live on neutral and even Federation planets, and even bribing actual Earth humans as spies.
Infiltration as such is no doubt common - we get these "cultural observers" or petty criminals in basically every spinoff, pestering the ignorant natives with their schemes. But yes, native agents could also be drafted, or secretly programmed; counterespionage would simply have to deal with all sorts.
Interstellar war and other villainy seems common enough, and not just among peers. The Gorgan of Triacus is actually prime example, accused of having wrought havoc at Epsilon Indi and whatnot. How does one fight ghosts or arrest disembodied evil? Apparently, the folks of Trek just have to find the means.
Timo Saloniemi
Interstellar war and other villainy seems common enough, and not just among peers. The Gorgan of Triacus is actually prime example, accused of having wrought havoc at Epsilon Indi and whatnot. How does one fight ghosts or arrest disembodied evil? Apparently, the folks of Trek just have to find the means.
Timo Saloniemi
From the beginning I've taking the fist pumping to be akin to 'hammering' the victim with their "Beast", so they'll either act to avoid it, or be trapped by it. It's relatively easy to explain away stuff like that, when you use a mindset similar to the one when it was first presented.
The episode is full of stylistic decisions that were utterly crappy and seldom intentional. Just look at it.
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