And The Children Shall Lead...

[alchemist]

I think this would make the most sense in-universe.

Kor

I concur.

I remember the first time I saw this episode as a kid and, when it was over, having to pull out an encyclopedia to find out what a gorgon was. I didn't understand the nuances of what I had read, but I at least understood that a gorgon was a winged "monster" like the friendly angel (which also has wings) that was in the episode. It wasn't until much later that I read that the name of the creature was Gorgan and that Shatner had either screwed up the line or didn't understand the difference. At any rate, Kirk said "the gorgon" so, by strict definition, the name of the alien was never revealed.

 

[Mr Awe]

Horrible episode. The only one that is worse is The Alternative Factor!

 

[Steven P Bastien]

The basic idea of "Children Shall Lead" could have been turned into a great episode. It could have been the great "horror genre episode" for TOS. It started well enough, and Kirk gave a sense of foreboding in the cave, but it fell off the rails after that. I can barely watch the disaster that resulted from a good premise.

 

[FormerLurker]

As I've said many times before, a couple more lines of expository dialog in act one, including naming the ancient race (The Gorgan! Hah!), and this episode could have been perceived very differently by everyone. It isn't so much the episode is bad as it has so much wasted potential, with such an easy, yet unused, fix.

Oh, and I always liked Melvin Belli. He could outham Shatner, and had such a sonorous voice at that time in his life. It must have been fun watching him go at it in a courtroom.

 

[Maurice]

...The Alternative Factor? ...and you can make some allowances for the fact that they had to chop out the main subplot...

The subplot was cut because Roddenberry said it was too similar to woman-betrays-the-ship to the guest villain of "Space Seed". That's the only reason.

 

[Commishsleer]

As I've said many times before, a couple more lines of expository dialog in act one, including naming the ancient race (The Gorgan! Hah!), and this episode could have been perceived very differently by everyone. It isn't so much the episode is bad as it has so much wasted potential, with such an easy, yet unused, fix.

Oh, and I always liked Melvin Belli. He could outham Shatner, and had such a sonorous voice at that time in his life. It must have been fun watching him go at it in a courtroom.

I hope for the sake of his clients he was a better actor in the courtroom than he was in "And The Children Shall Lead".
If they had replaced him with an "actor" and tweaked some other things, played up the menace, controlled Shatner then it might have been a good episode rather than possibly the worst episode of TOS.

 

[johnnybear]

Horrible episode. The only one that is worse is The Alternative Factor!

I can think of one in particular...Plato's Stepchildren?
JB

 

[Mr Awe]

I can think of one in particular...Plato's Stepchildren?
JB

That's a tough one!

 

[johnnybear]

That's a tough one!

To agree on? To pick? To watch?
JB

 

[Mr Awe]

To agree on? To pick? To watch?
JB

To label as the worst TOS episode!

 

[alchemist]

I can think of one in particular...Plato's Stepchildren?
JB

I'll have to disagree with you here. "Plato's Stepchildren" is better than "And The Children Shall Lead." At the very least, it had some good performances by its guest stars. And besides, it gave us the world's first multiracial kiss fest.

 

[Marsden]

Plato's Stepchildren was for a very long time one of my least favorites because it's painful to watch. I rewatched it again a few years back and didn't dwell on that but paid attention to what else was happening, and it's really a very good episode.

Leonard Nimoy's portrayal of Spock trying to control his anger is excellent. Kirk and Alexander's exchanges are very good and a lot of what we think of when we think of life in the Federation after so many novels and other subsequent works are based on how Kirk describes things to Alexander. And the theme about power corrupting people is certainly a Star Trek staple. If you can look past the torturous parts and understand they aren't gratuitous but showing the depth of the Platonians depravity, then it's not as bad.

If you dwell on Shatner's horse impression... I can't help you there.

 

[Steven P Bastien]

If you dwell on Shatner's horse impression... I can't help you there.

Neither could my psychologist.

More seriously, this episode (Plato's Stepchildren) has grown on me over the years. Maybe not for the same reasons you mentioned, although they are good reasons. I'm not at the point where I can articulate what it is yet, but there is something there in that episode. I think Alexander's character is the key to the quality that is in the episode.

 

[johnnybear]

To label as the worst TOS episode!

Then we are in total agreement, Mr Awe!
JB

 

[johnnybear]

I'll have to disagree with you here. "Plato's Stepchildren" is better than "And The Children Shall Lead." At the very least, it had some good performances by its guest stars. And besides, it gave us the world's first multiracial kiss fest.

I have never understood why people hate And The Children to be honest! But Plato is bad, real bad! And the Kirk/Uhura kiss isn't really a kiss but more a type of mentally forced attack upon her! It was banned in the UK by the BBC for nearly twenty five years so that must say something about it?
JB

 

[Commander Luskeen]

The only good thing about ATCSL is when those guys got beamed into space. That's pretty terrifyng

 

[johnnybear]

The idea of Gorgon exploiting human weaknesses is a good one I've always thought! As a kid I found him quite scary to be honest, especially once he started dissolving into porridge at the end!
JB

 

[Talos IV]

Used to, I thought the only cool thing about this episode was that we got to see the new recreation room set that was built for the third season. But now even that set seems just ... wrong. George Duning's music score isn't his finest, either.

Absolutely atrocious episode.

 

[johnnybear]

Obviously it's not to everyone's taste it seems! Sad as there are many worse shows in the entire series let alone just in season three!
JB

 

[gottacook]

George Duning's music score isn't his finest, either.

Well, I'm glad it's not his finest, because if it were, I'd have to watch the episode more than once every 10 to 12 years... although I do very much like the last 10 seconds or so, beginning with the final statement of the four-note motif (B flat - A - C - A flat) as the ship leaves orbit.