Ah, I thought you were talking about real life.
Medical Careers in Starfleet
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Ah, I thought you were talking about real life.
All of the officers in that situation, if I remember correctly, handled it very well. Troi was the most Senior Officer on the bridge, therefore, she had Command. However, she listened Ro and O'Brian. As well, both of them knew they were more experienced, however they still differed to the Senior Officer. Both Ro or O'Brian clearly had more knowledge for that type of situation, but a Lieutenant Commander may still be aware of more things then they might.
But that is an emergency situation, there are different aspects to things like that then a small research group working under ideal conditions.
Also, I believe that was the situation that helped move Troi towards wanting to pursue the Bridge Officers Exam and move ahead, was it not? (That and her class reunion?) But she is a good example up till then of an Officer who through experience was able to gain a high rank without much leadership experience. Each rank still requires certain qualifications and experience to attain.
I think it's common sense to listen to every ones input (isn't it?), especially in an emergency situation. Even if you are the most qualified and the most senior officer, good Officers will ask for input. Even Captain Picard asks for advice and input from his Officers fairly often. Even Worf, a Lieuteant, can give suggestions to Captain Picard.
Emergency situations happen, thats why there is the chain of command to make sure people know what to do. The less time people have to spend figuring out who to listen to, the quicker everyone can get to the real problems. You don't always get to operate under ideal circumstances (obviously), that is why you want to train up and get the Junior Officers the experience they need when things are ideal. The more senior officers already have the experience, so why not let the Junior Officers get some experience? So that when something bad does come up, Staff should feel confident that they can count on their Junior Officers to preform properly.
I completely agree. I have largely operated under the belief of listening to experienced people (I come from a retail background which is not the same as the military
) can give the most benefit. I rarely feel comfortable moving forward on a project without at least consultation. Also, I appreciate your response.
So he was, my mistake. Regardless, Logan was a full Lieutenant, while Geordi was a Junior Lieutenant, meaning Logan was still the higher ranking officer.
But, Captain Picard left LaForge in Command in his absence. LaForge did not assume. I would assume that Captain Picard knew the Officers well enough to make the judgment call that he would rather have LaForge in Command and Logan in the Engine Room. And, given Logans actions during this crisis, and considering we do not see Logan again after this incident, I would think we can infer that Captain Picard had Logan transferred off his ship.
Picard almost always solicited advice from all his department heads*, yet it was also always clear that ultimately the decision was his: this isn't a vote. That was handled very well on the show.
*Except his Chief Science Officer was notably absent. I know in reality that's mostly because they didn't like how Data looked in blue, but I prefer to think about what it means in-universe.
I suspect that it doesn't reflect on Picard's views of science or anything, but rather that the CSO job turned over so often (with the ship periodically getting sent on some special science mission with a bunch of new scientists and a new CSO) that he just never built that kind of relationship with one
*Except his Chief Science Officer was notably absent. I know in reality that's mostly because they didn't like how Data looked in blue, but I prefer to think about what it means in-universe.
I suspect that it doesn't reflect on Picard's views of science or anything, but rather that the CSO job turned over so often (with the ship periodically getting sent on some special science mission with a bunch of new scientists and a new CSO) that he just never built that kind of relationship with one
I kind of think it's because the Enterprise-D is so much bigger than Kirk's Enterprise. More crew to choose from, experts to rotate through depending on the mission parameters. There's a lot more "dealing with people we already know" on Picard's ship than Kirk's.
Regarding Wesley in command of those his senior in the ranks; what's a more valuable lesson/learning experience: having to maintain command over someone/a mission based on your higher rank, respect, experience/seniority, or maintaining command based solely on earning respect as you go along and the captain's say-so, regardless of lack of experience and rank?
Another possible element to Wesley's being in command of 'more senior' personnel might be the fact that Wesley is an acting Bridge Officer which generally (unless they are senior staff) means they outrank non-Bridge Officers particularly blue shirts?
Possibly.
The difference between line officers and support officers, essentially.
I don't agree.
At that point, Troi had not yet completed her bridge officer's exam (which we would later see in "Thine Own Self"). Thus, in "Disaster" she would not be qualified to stand watch on the bridge, not even in an emergency situation.
Realistically, Ro Laren should have been in command, since she was an officer on the command track.
A senior officer is still a senior officer unless someone of an even higher authority places someone else in command. As it was an emergency situation, the most senior officer is in charge. However, as Troi did correctly, she sought the advice and knowledge from those who did have the proper training. Even Chief O'Brian said this.
There are a few different things that could change that, say if they Enterprise had been under attack or something.
Even a senior officer without training for some situations, is still a senior officer and they may posses knowledge that the junior officers do not.
There are however, always situations when the rules are called in to question. You are correct, at that time Troi was not Bridge Officer qualified, and Ro could have brought that up. Perhaps if the emergency was caused by different situations then it could have unfolded differently.
But also remember, whatever track Ro was on, at that point, she was still only an Ensign. And despite Troi only being a Councillor, she was still a Lieutenant Commander. That is too large of a gap in rank. Again, perhaps if Ro was a little higher in rank. Ro may know lots about procedures and tactical command knowledge for some things, but a LtCdr, even a Councillor, still has to know things to get to that rank. Senior Officer most often have knowledge of things that the Junior Officers simply do not. And rank still needs to be earned regardless of your career path.
I think what most people are getting confused with is what and when Ro could take charge for a situation as that. IF Troi had begun to make poor judgement calls, while making things worse, of course yes, they could have the right to take over command. But again, as I keep saying, Troi did not do that. She acted accordingly and properly for her situation. She may not have been a Bridge Officer, but she was not serving as a Bridge Officer at the time, she was just there. And the serving Bridge Officers were dead. If the Bridge Officer on Watch/Command had not died, then No, Troi would not have assumed Command. But in that particular situation, she was there. Its how it happened. After the Officer in Command had been killed, there was no one who had appointed seniority, therefore, authority fell to the most senior officer that was there. Not ideal, but thats not it went down.
During the conversation about the state of this ship between Troi, Ro, and O'Brian, both Ro and O'Brian argued over separating the saucer section to save half the ship. Ro stated there was no evidence that anyone was alive, O'Brian that there was no proof they were dead either. Both were right, and Troi was the one to make the decision to do everything to help everyone. Even at the risk of the ships destruction. She wanted to give everyone a chance. And she came up with the idea to route power to engineering to try to get someones attention. Starfleet doesn't just give up and give up on saving the lives of others at the risk to their own. In fact, this is an inherent risk Starfleet personnel take when they sign up. Yes you could argue that then the crew would be willing to accept death to save half the ship. But I am fairly certain that trying to save lives if preferable to abandoning them. And Lieutenant Commander Troi was aware of this.
There was a point when the containment field almost collapsed, and Ro pointed it out and told her it was time to leave. Again, Ro was technically not wrong. But it was not her call.
Think of it this way... if every time there was a similar situation and some Junior Officer thought that they knew more then a more senior ranking officer because of their career path, then there would be far too many instances of mutiny. Any officer with poor judgment who thinks they are correct would be constantly challenging every senior officer and things would not work out. And this is exactly why Rank Seniority is a thing. I will also point out again that by the time an Officer is a full Lieutenant, they should know to ask for help or advice from other officers in situations that they may not have as much experience in. A good officer will know their strengths and weaknesses, and not afraid to seek help or advice where they lack. This includes good junior officers who will understand that no matter how much they know, they can still learn something from more senior officers. And I feel even Ro knew this. Although she voiced her opinions and thought she was correct, in the end, she still listened to Lieutenant Commander Troi.
Doesn't matter.
Ro was a command officer, and Troi was not. Until Troi passes the bridge officer's test, she is not qualified in any way to stand a bridge watch. Regardless of rank.
Whether it be a real-life or fictional situation, the fact remains...if there is a shipboard disaster similar to the one shown here, and the only two officers left on the bridge are an Admiral who is a doctor (which is basically the same line of work that Troi was in - a ship's counsellor is part of the medical staff), and an Ensign who is an officer of the line, the Ensign would take command. There's really no way around that. Only command officers are qualified to take the conn. And it wasn't until 'Thine Own Self" that Troi became eligible to do so.
Ro Laren was literally the only one left on the bridge who could legitimately have taken command. Rank be damned.
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Except it is perfectly possible that Ro didn't have the bridge officer qualifications either, she was just an ensign. It is some sort of advanced training thing that allows you to take command of a starship (possibly what lieutenant Saavik was training for in the Academy) not something that every command track officer automatically has from the get go.
Ro is automatically a command officer (and thus has the authority to stand watch on the bridge). Just look at her uniform color. Anyone who wears red (or gold) has it.
Only blue-shirted officers, like Troi and Crusher, are required to take the command exam if they want to have the center seat. That's because medical officers are not normally in the chain of command.
That is not how it works. Being in command or operations branch does not automatically give you bridge officer qualifications, you need to earn them just like everybody else. It is perfectly possible that an ensign has not done so yet. Do you think that if it had been Wesley there instead of Ro he should have taken the command due the red shirt? It really is not like line and staff officer divide in the real world. Many science division officers (Spock, Dax) seem to be perfectly qualified to command a ship, and people seem to be able to switch service divisions quite freely.
Wasn't Ro a Lieutenant who was demoted to Ensign, though? She would still have the qualifications of a Lieutenant even if she had the lower rank.
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Fair point. Still, she necessarily didn't have the qualifications, they're only required for Commander rank.
Which struck me as kind of silly. Surely LCMRs and LTs have stood watches on the bridge.
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