Medical Careers in Starfleet

[Shamrock Holmes]

Not necessarily. Here's the full line:

'Cause I looked up your file while you were drooling on the floor. Your aptitude tests are off the charts, so what is it? You like being the only genius-level repeat offender in the midwest?

These could have been tests he took in high school, or while moving through the correctional system - Pike implies that Kirk has committed crimes before (likely other brawls, hence "repeat offender" - assault and battery, then).

That's certainly possible, but given that he was 22 (the right age for someone within a undergraduate degree), gave an academic's answer to "xenoliguistics", and the best precedence in the RW for someone going in a Lieutenant (which screens on Enterprise IDed him as) is a prior degree then I can't see any reason why it's preferable to assume this.

Particularly security personnel, I imagine. First responders, much like police are today.

Given that Damage Control teams are essentially Fire/Rescue teams (which are sometimes dual-trained as EMT or even paramedics) I'd say they could also be trained as responders at least, and given how quickly things can go badly in the engineering spaces I'm not I'd argue against them being responder-trained either.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Check out this exchange between TOS Kirk and McCoy from "The Lights of Zetar":

KIRK: Doctor, do you have a medical record of Lieutenant Romaine available?
MCCOY: Yes, Captain.
KIRK: I'd like a few items from her psychological profile checked. Any history of psychosomatic illness?
MCCOY: Occasional and teenage routine incidents.
KIRK: Any evidence of involuntary or unconscious telepathic abilities?
MCCOY: None.
KIRK: Any pathological or unusual empathic responses?
MCCOY: No, Captain, not empathic. However, an extremely flexible and pliant response to new learning situations is highly marked.

I wonder if (abnormal) psychology is part of command training? Kirk seems to know all the boxes to check regarding his inquiries into Mira Romaine's condition. Or perhaps incidents like Gary Mitchell's transformation have given him a sensitivity to/interest in this field.

TOS seems to like to make up these futuristic medical tests named after people. When I wrote "Image of the Invisible" (fanfic), I gave one of my characters, Zachary Moss (an Enterprise scientist and amateur fiction writer) a highly creative mind - McCoy states that Moss has "a very high Bernhardt creativity quotient".

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

I wonder if (abnormal) psychology is part of command training? Kirk seems to know all the boxes to check regarding his inquiries into Mira Romaine's condition. Or perhaps incidents like Gary Mitchell's transformation have given him a sensitivity to/interest in this field.

TOS seems to like to make up these futuristic medical tests named after people. When I wrote "Image of the Invisible" (fanfic), I gave one of my characters, Zachary Moss (an Enterprise scientist and amateur fiction writer) a highly creative mind - McCoy states that Moss has "a very high Bernhardt creativity quotient".

There have been occassional implications that psych testing is mandatory, and it's not much of a stretch that Kirk might have done some reading beforehand to find out what he was getting into, but I doubt that psych is a mandatory credit for Command School (the Medical School on the other hand...).

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Don't you need, or at least wouldn't it be helpful to have a basic understanding of personality types and how to motivate/work with/mediate with different kinds of people?

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Don't you need, or at least wouldn't it be helpful to have a basic understanding of personality types and how to motivate/work with/mediate with different kinds of people?

I'd go with that.

 

[Timo]

Then there's this business with "Space Psychology", a speciality of McCoy's. Perhaps the thing that allowed him to replace both Piper and Dehner on one stroke? Not all medics need be equal, either...

And some on the command track come out of the academy as Lieutenants, such as Saavik and NuKirk.

But with a crucial difference. Kirk in both timelines was specified to be a Cadet while trying to tackle the no-win scenario; he only attained a commissioned rank later on (and supposedly as the direct consequence), becoming Ensign at some point in TOS, and a Lt(jg) in the 2009 movie. In the movie, we even saw with our own eyes that Kirk wore nothing to suggest he would hold rank while rescuing the Kobayashi Maru.

Yet Saavik already wore the decorations of a commissioned Lieutenant while attempting the no-win scenario. She retained that rank in ST3, her apparent success in the test not having altered that (it just altered the colors she was wearing). And she was never referred to as Cadet.

We also got no indication on how long Saavik had been a Lieutenant at that point. The simplest assumption would seem to be that the Command&Conquer course is optional for undergraduates, and that Saavik took it as a postgraduate, while folks like Spock and McCoy did not, but Kirk in both universes hungrily opted for the course before graduation.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Tim Thomason]

It's kind of interesting that McCoy is mentioned as a psychologist (on the record) in only one episode and he later denies being a psychiatrist twice (COTEOF and Friday's Child).

I think space psychology, at least as practiced by McCoy, might be merely observance and interaction in day-to-day duties, and not active psychotherapy sessions. People are always making jokes about him just hanging out on the bridge all the time and neglecting his job, but maybe he is doing his job (especially when phasers go-a blastin') and making sure the bridge crew doesn't get psychologically fatigued.

Heck, maybe this also explains what the hell Deanna Troi is doing with her own chair on the bridge (other than nerfing stats from enemy combatants). Is Tuvok the space psychologist on Voyager? Maybe Jadzia had that role on DS9.

 

[The Wormhole]

Is Tuvok the space psychologist on Voyager?

Voyager doesn't have one, the Maquis mission was before one could be assigned.

Maybe Jadzia had that role on DS9.

No, Ezri did.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Then there's this business with "Space Psychology", a speciality of McCoy's. Perhaps the thing that allowed him to replace both Piper and Dehner on one stroke? Not all medics need be equal, either...

Helen Noel's a psychiatrist and presumably she's been with the ship since before the infamous Christmas party mentioned in "Dagger of the Mind".

 

[Longinus]

Helen Noel a psychiatrist and presumably she's been with the ship since before the infamous Christmas party mentioned in "Dagger of the Mind".

Who bizarrely didn't seem to be an officer... Well, maybe she was an ensign.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Who bizarrely didn't seem to be an officer... Well, maybe she was an ensign.

I think it's safe to assume she's an officer.

 

[SpyOne]

No, Ezri did.

Ezri wasn't on DS9 for the first six seasons.
I agree it wasn't Jadzia, but somebody should have been assigned as Councelor.
I can understand at the start when there were only a handful of people assigned to the station, but by the time the number of Starfleet personnel aboard began to rival the crew of the Enterprise, they really should have had a Councelor.

 

[The Wormhole]

agree it wasn't Jadzia, but somebody should have been assigned as Councelor.

Counselor Telnorri was mentioned in Hard Time.

 

[Timo]

It's kind of interesting that McCoy is mentioned as a psychologist (on the record) in only one episode and he later denies being a psychiatrist twice (COTEOF and Friday's Child).

I think space psychology, at least as practiced by McCoy, might be merely observance and interaction in day-to-day duties, and not active psychotherapy sessions. People are always making jokes about him just hanging out on the bridge all the time and neglecting his job, but maybe he is doing his job (especially when phasers go-a blastin') and making sure the bridge crew doesn't get psychologically fatigued.

Indeed. Apparently. space psychology has no practical applications in the adventures - it does not make McCoy qualified to snap-judge Decker's mental state, say (even if the prosecution in "Court Martial" may disingenuously first pump McCoy for speculation on Kirk's inner life and then pretend it carries extra professional weight). McCoy may have many medical specialities, but psychotherapist isn't one of them, so he studied psychology for some other reason (or decided against completing therapist studies for some reason). And the reasons might relate to what we see happen on screen (McCoy observes, takes over Dehner's job, etc).

Or then they might not, and McCoy's unused and useless degree is just a dead career end, perhaps something he dropped when getting divorced and joining the Fleet. Or it is a field of academic study he practices in his free time.

Heck, maybe this also explains what the hell Deanna Troi is doing with her own chair on the bridge (other than nerfing stats from enemy combatants). Is Tuvok the space psychologist on Voyager? Maybe Jadzia had that role on DS9.

Possibly only ships on long deep space missions warrant such a spy/poliruk? An possibly only back in the 23rd century when such things were a novelty?

Later ships and installations reap the benefits of these early studies, and receive trained therapists exactly because those psychologists of old recommended that Starfleet employ them.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[David.Blue]

And some on the command track come out of the academy as Lieutenants, such as Saavik and NuKirk.

Kor

I strongly suspect, from the evidence, that a suffiently impressive cadet graduates as a Lieutenant rather than an Ensign. I would guess this might be the Valdectorian? Or maybe a very specific set of criteria.

Myself, I wonder if all officers are part of the chain of command at all? I suspect not, at least not in a straightforward way. We know Picard had the authority to create an "acting ensign" of someone who had never attended the Academy. But was Wesley part of the chain of command? I don't think so. Given the Enterprise and other ships are often off in deep space, a certain amount of leeway was probably given Captains. I suspect overall certain specialists are outside the regular chain of command, including (for example) Counselors and Medical personnel, until or unless they have met certain criteria.

I would note of course Troi evidently was in the chain of command, which is really weird. She had to have some pretty basic stuff explained to her, including things we in the audience already knew and she lives on board a space ship! I just have to assume this was some kind of technical default due to regulations.

So were McCoy, Bashir, etc. in the regular chain of command or not?

 

[Nerys Myk]

So were McCoy, Bashir, etc. in the regular chain of command or not?

Medical personnel aren't usually in the chain of command. But they are officers, so there is that.

 

[J.T.B.]

I would note of course Troi evidently was in the chain of command, which is really weird. She had to have some pretty basic stuff explained to her, including things we in the audience already knew and she lives on board a space ship! I just have to assume this was some kind of technical default due to regulations.

Slightly different things, there. She was shown taking charge of a watch, which in naval services is a job that can be done by fairly junior officers once they have qualified. Whether she was in the chain of command is another question, that is, if multiple officers were killed or unable to perform their duty, would the ship's counselor take command at some point among the other commanders? Or would it pass her by and go to a lieutenant commander with more command training? It seems to be the latter, since Data is apparently still second officer, or third in command.

So were McCoy, Bashir, etc. in the regular chain of command or not?

We can be pretty sure that McCoy is not, from comments he made to Scotty in "A Taste of Armageddon" about not being "an officer of the line."

Medical personnel aren't usually in the chain of command. But they are officers, so there is that.

Yeah, in naval services, controlling ships at sea is so high-stakes and potentially hazardous it has to be its own specialty, and officers have historically had to have a strong background of training and experience in that direction to take command of vessels. On shore, officers of other specialties may take command, depending on the country. In space, ship command may not be as difficult as on the sea, so the line officer background may not be as rigorous. Also, in the real world, medical personnel are allowed special protections under the Geneva convention, so it is generally tried to keep them separate from war-fighting so their functions do not become blurred.

 

[The Wormhole]

We know Picard had the authority to create an "acting ensign" of someone who had never attended the Academy. But was Wesley part of the chain of command?

How could he be? I'm pretty sure "Acting Ensign" is the lowest possible rank attainable on a starship. Like Chief O'Brien said to Nog, if Wesley ever had to take command, there'd be no one left to command.

 

[Nerys Myk]

How could he be? I'm pretty sure "Acting Ensign" is the lowest possible rank attainable on a starship. Like Chief O'Brien said to Nog, if Wesley ever had to take command, there'd be no one left to command.

He'll be telling Molly and Alexander what to do.

 

[MAGolding]

How could he be? I'm pretty sure "Acting Ensign" is the lowest possible rank attainable on a starship. Like Chief O'Brien said to Nog, if Wesley ever had to take command, there'd be no one left to command.

Part of the summary of "Pen Pals" in the 2nd season, when Wesley is an acting ensign:

As the Enterprise surveys an area of unexplored planets with unusually short life spans due to severe geological changes, Acting Ensign Wesley Crusher is put in charge of a survey team in order to further his studies toward becoming a Starfleet officer. Wesley selects a team of highly competent science officers; however, as they are much older than he is, he worries that his authority will be challenged. One team member, Davies, rebuts Wesley's request to run a time-consuming scan, causing Wesley to doubt himself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pen_Pals_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)

If Wesley is in charge of a survey team he is more or less in command of it. Since Wesley had people under his command in that episode, and there was at least one person above Wesley but below Captain Picard, Wesley was in the chain of command during that episode.

You mention Chief O'Brien, and yet fail to realize that as a chief petty officer he was more or less an enlisted man, and thus more or less lower ranking than Acting Ensign Wesley Crusher.

As Wesley said in "Datalore":

WESLEY: That everything that I have said would have been listened to if it came from an adult officer. Request permission to return to my quarters, sir.

If Acting Ensign Wesley Crusher was not an officer, he would have compared himself to an adult, not to an adult officer.

And even if Acting Ensign is the lowest possible rank in Starfleet, Acting Ensigns can still be in the chain of command.

In the army, two second lieutenants with the same grade will not have any problem of deciding who is in command of them and any enlisted men with them. The second lieutenant with the earliest date of being commissioned a second lieutenant will have the right to command. If 2nd lieutenant A is in command of a squad or platoon, and 2nd lieutenant B has seniority, 2nd lieutenant A will remain in command of his unit and 2nd lieutenant B will have overall command, the senior sergeant will be 3rd in command, and so on, with a clear chain of command.

And I think the rule of seniority in rank also extends to enlisted soldiers down to the lowest ranks, so that two privates would know who had the right to command.

So I suppose that if in the Civil War a group of drummer boys got separated from the rest of their unit somehow, the drummer boy who enlisted at the earliest date would have command seniority, regardless of his age, if they followed normal army methods.