Except for the nod by Captain Maxwell about the Borg, you're right that Riker didn't get enough credit.
Favourite Riker Moments
- Thread starter 2takesfrakes
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When Riker finally takes his own command, the episode has some really cool moments to it. I like, for example, how Picard harkens back to when they first met and the angle he's shot from is reminiscent, I believe, of that conversation they had in the lounge, then. In any case, it's a nice nod to something earlier, which is always nice. And when Worf kind of pressures Riker into taking him along, on his next ship ... I liked that show of friendship. Of course Riker and Troi have their little moment, as expected. Big emotions ... a very nice Riker episode, overall:
Until everyone read the report, & realized that none of it would've happened if Data hadn't hacked the collective. Kinda takes the wind outta Riker's sails imho lol
I actually agree with this statement, despite being an avid Jellico supporter, & it's not that he didn't want to. He didn't really have the chance to, by his own admission. I'll question Will as a captain pretty often, but the sad reality of that situation is that we all know Riker is a pretty damn good 1st officer. If I'm going on an away mission... I take Riker every time. He's a solid team oriented guy almost all of the time, & he's got guts a plenty. He's an all around good officer, with a solid sense of duty
However, there is a deliberate choice in Chain of Command, to have Riker not be like that Riker we know. He doesn't think this guy ought to be captain. He thought he should've been captain, & that prejudice taints his performance throughout, imho. It changes everything, & we never get to see the best Riker until the tail end. We're seeing Riker at his worst, in that episode, imho
Until everyone read the report, & realized that none of it would've happened if Data hadn't hacked the collective. Kinda takes the wind outta Riker's sails imho lol
To be fair though Riker came up with that plan to capture Locutus, which allowed the hack to happen, then he suggested data give them a simple command (Picard finally suggested sleep). Whole thing could have gone badly without Riker's orders there
I liked how he sat in chairs, cocked his head at a weird angle, put his leg up on consoles, banged Troi every now and then, banged other ladies and nongendered species and generally gave very few fucks about anything.
I didn't much like his lack of motivation. Giving up captaincy again and again, becoming Enterprise captain and giving it up. Lame.
I didn't much like his lack of motivation. Giving up captaincy again and again, becoming Enterprise captain and giving it up. Lame.
And those are fair points, especially his suggestion to implant a command into the Borg Collective, which he got walked to by Shelby & Beverly. He never actually suggested a simple command. He was too busy planning to ram them lol. Shelby kept pushing for different alternatives
Ultimately though, Riker seemed more like his only concern in capturing Locutus, was to save Picard. His initial plan was to free Picard, so they could benefit from his knowledge of the Borg. So in a weird way, he did the right thing, but for the wrong reason. It wasn't until Data's suggestion of "accessing the machine" that they were on the right track.
I'm more than willing to admit that the entire team effort saved the day, Riker included, because they each had integral roles. Even Troi came in handy at the last minute, when Picard & not Locutus was talking, but to suggest that Riker was the mastermind or the leader that lead them to triumph, & is worthy of praise for being some kind of masterful captain, is rather disingenuous imho
The truth is, if Data hadn't been there, they'd have been shit out of luck, because there likely wasn't any other computer capable of tapping into Locutus similarly, in that time frame, & subverting them. Plus, let's not forget Picard's own contribution. They were barking up the wrong tree the whole time they had access, until Picard reached out with his suggestion
They were all highly beneficial to the outcome, but if any one person was indispensable to the recipe, it was Data. Nothing any of the rest of them did would've mattered, were it not for his special nature
This is slightly off topic, but I agree that Data was integral.
He saved the day many times. He was the only lead cast member of the entire franchise (23rd and 24th century, anyway) to never be promoted, which always bothered me. Even Harry Kim got to be a captain in an alternate future. But Data stays a Lt. Commander for the entire run of the series and movies? Alternate timelines included?
Not cool.
He saved the day many times. He was the only lead cast member of the entire franchise (23rd and 24th century, anyway) to never be promoted, which always bothered me. Even Harry Kim got to be a captain in an alternate future. But Data stays a Lt. Commander for the entire run of the series and movies? Alternate timelines included?
Not cool.
Getting back on target, Riker has a real problem with something happening to Picard, under any circumstance. He seems very averse to taking command in the event of a crisis that takes the captain's life. That's pretty dicey for an XO. It's really the top job. Admittedly however, some of my favorite Riker stuff is in Gambit, after he goes off half-cocked to find Picard, & ends up in the same mess lol
Edit: You know, I don't think the Picard/Riker/Data command chain has ever been more intuitive than in Gambit. Those guys got each other pegged in that situation
Edit: You know, I don't think the Picard/Riker/Data command chain has ever been more intuitive than in Gambit. Those guys got each other pegged in that situation
They may not have been able to find a way to win without Data's technology, but Data also hesitated at the very end when they needed to get away from the cube quickly and he suggested a potentially disastrous idea of studying the cube instead.
He waited until the last second to order the collision course while they were being pulled by a tractor beam, which was pretty bad ass IMO. He makes Wesley almost shat himself and that's a favorite riker moment of mine
The captain's role is essential though and he really brought all the pieces together. I mean, if Picard is meant to be pretty famous throughout Starfleet for his diplomacy missions, Riker really should be too for leading the crew to defeat the cube. Picard's achievements that we see are always team efforts as well, using Data & Troi all the time.
He waited until the last second to order the collision course while they were being pulled by a tractor beam, which was pretty bad ass IMO. He makes Wesley almost shat himself and that's a favorite riker moment of mine
The captain's role is essential though and he really brought all the pieces together. I mean, if Picard is meant to be pretty famous throughout Starfleet for his diplomacy missions, Riker really should be too for leading the crew to defeat the cube. Picard's achievements that we see are always team efforts as well, using Data & Troi all the time.
I think the other reason why Riker takes it so personally... Picard getting taken and assimilated, Picard 'killed' by the mercenaries in "Gambit"... is that one of his primary roles as XO is the safety of his captain. He even said so in the pilot. In both those scenarios, he feels he failed completely.
Riker never liked the idea of Picard going on away missions for precisely that reason. It's one of the most consistant character traits of Riker, and I always appreciated the fact that the writers kept that pretty much intact through the whole run of the series.
Riker never liked the idea of Picard going on away missions for precisely that reason. It's one of the most consistant character traits of Riker, and I always appreciated the fact that the writers kept that pretty much intact through the whole run of the series.
offtopic:Kirk would have hated being a Captain in the 24th century for this very reason
I don't see that as a hesitation. Data isn't in command. It was merely a suggestion, not all that different than when he suggested to Picard to explore the region they get sent to in Where No One has Gone Before. His default is to suggest study. He's a science officer. I honestly doubt that would be his choice in a command role, but this isn't really about Data's ability to command. It's about Riker's. Data is just the reason this all worked
Picard put the pieces together though. By Riker's own admission, in this very episode, the ship is best served in this situation by having everyone where Picard put them. It's Picard's team that saves the day
Don't get me wrong here. I'm not saying Riker is a bad captain. He did a good job here. It's in all probability his best performance as acting captain, but it really is just proficient, imho. He just makes sensible calls, doesn't screw up, & manages to get lucky in the one risk he took, for what I think was initially the wrong reason, and yes he is a considerable benefit to the outcome, but I couldn't say it was any more significant than Shelby's or Data's contributions... or even Picard at the right moment.
I don't want to get off topic with this, but compare it to other performances of a captain we've seen on just this show. Picard's leadership in Redemption, or even Jellico, who led his mission exceptionally, even if we can debate whether we think he led the people well or not. Picard's command is even more notable in Time's Arrow, imho
I will say that it is pretty dumb that Riker wouldn't take his own command after that. Surely that performance merits it, & turning down commands after that would be seen as asinine, but it isn't the kind of legendary commanding that rivals Kirk conjuring whales out of history, to save the planet lol
The part in Star Trek: Insurrection when Riker has shaved off the beard and says to Data, "Smooth as an android's butt, eh, Data?" Data feels Riker's face, shakes his head "no" with a smirk, and walks off. 
(Ok, so kind of a Data moment too, but you could tell that Frakes was really having fun.)
(Ok, so kind of a Data moment too, but you could tell that Frakes was really having fun.)
And of course:
"Mr. Worf...FIRE."
This is the best, most perfect summation of Riker I have read in all my years on this forum.
RE: the thing between Riker and Picard, I've always rationalized it as being Riker's daddy complex. Will was basically abandoned by his father and seemed to have been seeking father substitutes through his career -- the first may have been Captain Pressman -- but it wasn't until Picard that he found that. There are many occasions where Will seems personally hurt if Picard raises his voice... in Generations, Riker is veritably cowled in his reaction when Picard shouts at him, looking like a dog scolded by his owner... I really believe that, at least Riker's part, Picard became the father he never felt he had. It might even have been a contributing factor to his turning down all those commands.
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