You don't see the fallacy with this line of reasoning?
Most IRA (NORAID) funding came form Irish Americans.
Most Irish American vote left of centre.
Therefore most funding came from left of centre voters.
I'll leave you to think about it.
Special relationship UK & US (a myth?)
- Thread starter Nyotarules
- Start date
You don't see the fallacy with this line of reasoning?
Most IRA (NORAID) funding came form Irish Americans.
Most Irish American vote left of centre.
Therefore most funding came from left of centre voters.
I'll leave you to think about it.
Can you also make a concerted effort to not so perfectly exemplify the Ugly American stereotype and make the rest of us look bad by association? I mean, your posts in this thread have been embarrassing, both for yourself and for the rest of us who don't want you being our spokesperson.
Spitting image would be amazing if it were on at this time, and such a shame it is not because politically it has a unending comedy gold mine just waiting to be mined. lol
First time I ever heard this term used was in that Dennis Quaid/Micheal Sheen movie on HBO were Quaid plays BIll Clinton and Sheen basically reprises his role as Tony Blair that he payed in "The Queen." Like others have mentioned I noticed it also was used in "Love Actually." My guess it must have something to do with America and the British being strong allies and the fact that America sprung forth from England. Not to mention America being a Super power and Britian used to being a Empire or the fact that we saved the day in WWII according to how history books and myth have been written and it helps that it's been a very,very long time since the countries fought each other in a war or had any major conflict at all.
Jason
Jason
I think in the name of balance the distinction should be made here between statements about America and statements about Americans. One can dislike the policy decisions of a nation without making a value judgement about the individuals which comprise that nation. I've lived and worked in the U.S, holidayed there numerous times, have many American friends and have dated several American girls. I'm well aware that the U.S is full of wonderful people, much as all nations are.
However you are completely right @2takesfrakes seems to have set out to personify everything that many of us see as the worst, most ugly and ignorant traits of the stereotypes which do in fact have a basis in the behaviour of the body politic, not to mention the distorted self perception that seems to be held by certain portions of the population who buy whole heartedly into the propaganda. For instance the absurd and patently false delusion that the U.S is an exemplar of social progress, the wise and humane protector of humanity or (my personal favourite) "the world's cops".
(In fairness there's some basis for the last one if one views exporting the association between police work and shooting anyone with dark skin.....)
He genuinely seems to have no idea how alien those ideas seem to the rest of us and seems unable to make the connection that a "relationship" is a consensual two way process, preferring instead simply to dictate not only the terms of that relationship but the very fact of it's existence to the other party. If that's a relationship it's an unhealthy, controlling and abusive one.
That few brits have expressed any support here for the notion of the "special relationship" existing at all (and those who have have been very cautious, guarded and nuanced about it's value, if any) would give most people pause for thought, question the assumptions they are projecting. Instead he just continues to insist that he speaks not only for Americans, but for the Brits he imagines look fondly over the Atlantic at him and his ilk, wanting to follow and emulate his awesomeness.
Sadly they do exist...(cough cough Nigel Farrage)
Those were awful, but I thought the actual nadir was the delusion that Americans are pretty much the best people in the world. Nothing excuses bad behavior in the mind of the perpetrator like the belief that he's actually better than everybody else, or the flip side that everybody else is actually lesser. You've got "I know better" and "all your troubles are only mere inconveniences, considering the importance of my mission" all in one package.
It doesn't seem many steps away from master race ideology, either. Perhaps this belief in our own superiority is related to our history with slavery, a problem since colonial days and so something that I suppose we can thank the British for. No, whatever truth there is to that, we made the institution of slavery our own.
This attitude is something all imperial powers had, the British were no different. I bet the Greeks, Romans, Persians, Babylonians, Egyptians had delusions of grandeur.
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That's not the point I was making. I was simply responding to your unsupported statement that the American support that the IRA received was "specifically from Republican sources."
In response to the "special relationship" question, I would like to believe that there is. And although I don't presume to speak for all my fellow Americans, I believe that there are more of us than one would realize who see the UK as an equal, and a "brother-in-arms" should the circumstances arise. I dunno. Maybe it's just me. Not to exclude other countries, but I had always hoped that my country would always have Britain's back if they needed us and they would have ours.
I agree to an extant. I think there are many Americans that admire the progressiveness of the British and would like to maintain whatever friendship exists between the UK and the USA.
There's no special relationship politically. It's expedience and nothing more, it would be dropped like a hot rock if it suited either party. I personally wish we would diverge from America's interests a lot more than we do. Their foreign policy has been a dumpster fire for as long as anybody can remember, and ours not a lot better.
As far as American and British people go, there's a lot in common culturally, so it should come as no surprise we tend to get on. I love visiting the USA, although Trump has taken some of that shine off. It doesn't seem like a very welcoming place and both Obama and Trump have exposed the undercurrent of racism that has always existed, although in very different ways. If I were going to spend thousands on a holiday, I might be tipped in another direction.
As far as American and British people go, there's a lot in common culturally, so it should come as no surprise we tend to get on. I love visiting the USA, although Trump has taken some of that shine off. It doesn't seem like a very welcoming place and both Obama and Trump have exposed the undercurrent of racism that has always existed, although in very different ways. If I were going to spend thousands on a holiday, I might be tipped in another direction.
Leaving aside any special relationship between the US and the UK, the NATO treaty specifically Article 5 basically says an armed attack on one is considered an attack against all, the only time it has been invoked was following the 11th September 2001 terrorist attacks. We'll just have to see how well the current incumbent of the White House conducted himself at the recent NATO summit.
You're right, Locutus. Of course, it should be you who's our spokesman. You're so wise and ... and stuff.
Tracey Ullman does her best to fill the void.
Admittedly it's going to be pretty hard to gain accurate figures on the voting demographics for those funding terrorism and organised crime, so we probably won't get a clear answer here. Clinton was (in)famously sympathetic but by and large bear in mind although down history various branches and iterations of the IRA covered all bases of the conventional political spectrum they have all had catholicism in common, which is strongly tied in the U.S to conservative voting tendencies. Republican politicians condemned their actions during the troubles but their grasssroots voters in the Irish American community were frequently a different matter.
Additionally bear in mind the major overt NORAID donors tended to be Irish American industrial concerns, which almost by definition skew the figures further in favour of right wing sympathies. Businesses existed on U.S soil whose prime role was generating money for "the cause" whilst organised crime in that community through the 60's, 70's and 80's was directly geared towards financial and material support for paramilitary operations, operations many of us lived through and directly witnessed the consequences of. Two towns within spitting distance of my front door were severely damaged by the arms purchased with that funding and I've known several people who were victims of the violence. Cessation of that funding is commonly attributed to making the peace process a viable option, which eventually saved thousands of lives.
Admittedly there is also a case for pointing out several trade unions were also highly supportive of the activities of the IRA, but the extent to which they had the mechanisms or means to generate practical funding is debatable at best.
As has already been pointed out, the only time the NATO mutual defence clause has ever been triggered was 9/11 and the U.K have repeatedly supported and committed significant troop numbers to U.S wars of aggression. The only instances in modern times of either party fighting defensive wars have been the Falklands and (depending on your definitions) the Northern Ireland troubles. We've already covered the latter case whereas in the former U.S support was limited to provisional approval to supply unmanned naval equipment (specifically the Iwo Jima) and military contractors in the event of significant material losses, none of which materialised in practise other than submarine detectors and some limited ordnance.
Hardly an equal and equitable relationship or "having our backs"
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Well, there's your special relationship. Trump lands in the UK, the FIRST thing he does is throw our whole country under the bus, and endorse Boris Johnson, the co-author of our Brexit woes and an incompetent, narcissistic, power mad, pathological liar for PM.
Not surprised he thinks he'd make a great PM, as it must be like looking in a mirror for him.
Seriously. Fuck this guy.
Not surprised he thinks he'd make a great PM, as it must be like looking in a mirror for him.
Seriously. Fuck this guy.
Plus the lies pouring out of him like an incontinent adult....
Dear President Trump, still showing your ignorance
The Mayor of London despite all his faults is not responsible for the rise in crime in London, immigration to London or the state of our NHS hospitals, which does not have blood on its walls..Damn fool!
And if you are so anti immigration, you and your supporters can always deport yourselves back to Europe, there must be some septic isle we can put you all on.
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The coward does not want to stay in London, cannot handle a few protests... Narcissistic sociopath for a President, no wonder he admires Putin.That he visits the UK and makes a fool out of himself is of course bad enough.. that he'll see a really scary sociopath in a while is far more frightening.. (visits falloutsheltercheap&fast!.com)
Deft move by May to let Trump speak first on immigration. What a train wreck!