Is there a video clip?
I am listening on the radio
Trump - "I'm doing a great job"...Self praise is no recommendation
Special relationship UK & US (a myth?)
- Thread starter Nyotarules
- Start date
I am listening on the radio
Trump - "I'm doing a great job"...Self praise is no recommendation
The press conference is happening now (for future reference), so I don't know. I'm just watching it on MSNBC.
1. Let's say that wages kept up with inflation for critical goods (housing, medical carte, college). Would your (cynical?) claim of "consumers want it cheap" remain as viable? (No)
2. You're forgetting, among other things but how many tangents do we need to go into, IP theft, workers forced to train their replacements who'd shortly leave thereafter. And, guess what, nonwhites had to train nonwhite replacements at Disney, So Cal Edison, etc, but you brought up race first and for no reason other than pretending it's 1940 or something??
That's no less hyperbole than suggesting it's wrong to say "I'm proud of my country". Isn't that the sort of nationalism that's all of a sudden wrong or something? Makes me wish it was 2008.
But it's not 2008 anymore and lots of graphs prove it: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016...owing-obamas-recovery-angered-washington-post
(On edit: clarifications and correction)
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I also wish we were dealing with 2008 USA instead of 'there were good folk in the Neo Nazi movement USA, this is who is in charge right now, this is the person wearing the label 'leader of the free world'.
The press conference was an embarrassment for both nations. Mrs May has no self respect and Mr Trump would not know the truth even if he grabbed it by the pussy....
Sure, there's some convenience and wishful-thinking on both sides but I don't think that makes the relationship exactly fake. There is some commonality and closeness from pretty-uniquely sharing English, similar political systems and yes values (and both tending to have been more to the center-right or only center, not left, for decades), and longstanding U.K. desire to not be subsumed by Europe (which doesn't mean it must instead be subsumed by the U.S. but closeness does have some of that risk).
A U.S. that didn't have any particular regard for the U.K. would probably be a lot less tolerant and more irritated about the prospects of it leaving the EU, think it didn't really have the right to do so even if it technically did.
A U.S. that didn't have any particular regard for the U.K. would probably be a lot less tolerant and more irritated about the prospects of it leaving the EU, think it didn't really have the right to do so even if it technically did.
In what sense is the U.K. more socially liberal on same-sex marriage or abortion? The policies and social attitudes seem pretty similar to me. Or the British more against public/political religiosity?
And yet relations between U.K. and Europe also seem pretty cold if not already a mess (and even within Europe there are some definite tensions).
Have you not noticed the pattern here though of brits being a lot less enthused about the relationship or even convinced of it's existence?
Does that not suggest something to you? Is it not inherent to the idea of a relationship that both parties agree on the existence and terms?
I'm sorry about how harsh this will sound, but having lived on both sides of the pond we're worlds apart politically and in our values. Our ideas of "left" and "right" are quite distinct from those seen in the US. By any reasonable measure we would see Obama as being pretty much centrist for instance. Trump and his supporters would simply be viewed as a fringe element or frankly extremists. If in doubt look at the warm reception the fatuous tool has received over the past 24 hours. We treated Robert Mugabe with far more respect. Trump simply isn't welcome here.
Frankly as a socio political entity you are where we were a century and a half ago in terms of your cultural and social policy making. That doesn't necessarily make us more "advanced", but it does mean you are going through a pronounced period of the imperialism that was once our hallmark, as it was once the French and the Romans. It's not pretty and anti American sentiments are pretty high throughout the world at the moment, not just here.
The desire to avoid being subsumed by Europe is pretty disingenuous to be honest, every poll since the referendum has suggested a re-vote would see an overwhelming swing in favour of remaining in the EU, more than likely a scenario brought about by the simple fact of hubris, it was so obvious the majority wanted to remain that most thought it was a foregone conclusion and simply didn't bother to vote, whereas the leave camp had the momentum and the clear knowledge this was their one chance.
The simple truth is very few people in the U.K acknowledge or want any "special relationship" with the US, nor do we give much credibility when it is trotted out as a reason we should lend support to whatever self motivated US endeavour from which our leaders wish to garner goodwill by selling us out.
It's cynical to simply observe reality now? It's not reality that a lot of human rights protestors can be spotted filming on smartphones often made under horrific conditions in China using materials mined by child labor in Africa? Or that a lot of staunch opponents of providing immigrants a path to citizenship have employed illegal immigrants in their homes or companies, or if they're less well off get pissed about rising costs of fruits and vegetables picked by immigrant labor that the policies they support have now scared off or gotten deported? People frequently make hypocritical choices to save money, or don't educate themselves on the realities of how the products and services they use are made or performed. A lot of things you can't avoid even if you're a hyper-conscientious consumer.
I don't know why the mere mention of the words "white male" triggers you so much, even when used in a completely mundane way like in the post you quoted, but you really need to get over it. It's not "pretending it's the 1940s" to acknowledge that there are still a lot of institutional and individual racial issues (and other bigotry) to deal with in America and elsewhere, or to point out that the single largest voter bloc for Trump is white men. And it's not racist to point out that Trump is in fact a white male himself. Those are simply facts.
I don't know what in Odin's butthole Disney or SoCal Edison's minority hiring or retraining practices have to do with anything in that post or the thread topic. Because companies employ some minorities who train their own replacements who might also be minorities that means, what exactly? Racism is dead? There are completely egalitarian hiring practices? I have no idea what you're trying to say other than hearing the words "white male" seems to make you spin out into weird non sequiturs about minorities.
That literally has nothing to do with what was being said in the part you quoted. Jesus Christ.
So you made that tangential reference to 2008 just to set-up up your own random "Shit on Obama" link? Lame.
Nice source, BTW:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_Hedge
And before you question it being from Wikipedia, that's what the source reference links after each quoted passage are for.
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Most of the Brits here though do seem pretty left and thus displeased (and long have been) with their own government and disagreeing with major segments of the larger population.
Obama was also perceived as pretty centrist (for better or worse) by liberals and independents, conservatives have been getting more extreme though and thus were more hostile to him and perceived/claimed he was extreme left (but has Murdoch media also had the effect of making British conservatives more extreme?).
Well yes that is something to consider, the relation is pretty bad now (even if you do consider that Trump's opponent got more votes but OTOH Trump in office doesn't seem particularly unpopular or likely to lose reelection).
Obama however previously did increase positive sentiments despite the policies not being massively different (cooperation & negotiation on climate change and Iran being obvious big differences), hopefully that could happen again. Not sure the cultural policies are that different.
Long before the referendum to leave though there was the insistence, controversial and attacked elsewhere, on keeping the pound as currency and otherwise not have the EU be too powerful or influential. Interesting, though, that/if since the referendum public opinion has shifted to not wanting to leave and thinking the benefits of staying are greater.
I'm guessing you're fairly unfamiliar with British public policy. Abortion has not only been legalised by statute since 1967, and provided free through universal healthcare, but only a few loonies in the political sphere are actually against it. Anti choice is at best a fringe concern and never comes up in elections except as an accepted indicator one is, as aforementioned, a loon. The DUP, currently propping up the Tories in parliament with their ten seats, are anti choice and this required our conservative party to openly reassure the public that they did not agree.
Same sex civil partnership has been legal since 2005 and marriage since 2014, both again by act of parliament and overwhelming majority. There is no realistic prospect of reversal and it is not a political issue of note. Other legislation is progressing to remove barriers to trans people having acknowledgement of their gender, while the US passes laws to make it harder and the rights of LGBT+ people hinge on supreme court appointments.
As for religion, no UK politician ends speeches with a Christian blessing, it is considered bad form for public figures who are not actively members of the clergy to be openly religious and in fact most politicians don't mention their faith at all. Far from the American need for politicians to Bible thump, it is considered a detriment here. It is much more unusual for people generally to be overt about religious belief and few would admit to their worldview or politics being influenced by it (and I say that as someone with largely Christian friends). While technically our courtroom walls do contain a reference to God, it is at least in Latin and hidden in a coat of arms. Religion simply has far less place in public life except for what might charitably be termed empty ritual.
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Point illustrated, we seem left to you because by and large we sit politically to the left of you. Yes I'm a socialist, a public sector employee with a long history of trade unionism behind me, but I'm also notorious on the boards for that even among the brits
. The idea we share much common ground with the US politically is a myth.Yes, he was perceived as centrist by liberals, whereas here he would have been seen by the populace at large in that way. After all what exactly did he push that was so extreme? Socialised health care? LGBTQ rights? Climate change? These are things that even our conservatives would mostly not question as simply being a given. What you call "the left" we see as being mainstream, that's the point I'm trying to make.
LGBTQ rights? Attitudes to sexuality in the media? The role of religion in policy making? Public healthcare? Social security, welfare and the relationship between state and citizen? Levels and nature of taxation? Gun rights? Privatisation of public services and conversely subsidising of private concerns? Social care? The purpose and outlook of defence spending? Climate control? Capital punishment?
We aren't even remotely similar in any of these political arenas and that's simply scratching the surface.
And to the Cameron, May and Blair governments also, no?
The similarities and cooperation between Reagan & Thatcher, Blair with both Clinton and Bush, then Obama & Brown weren't imaginary, I guess we can disagree about their significance.
The two countries do seem to be at least remotely similar in the pretty-major issue of taxation levels (top levels being 37% U.S. and 45% U.K.). Britain has also been pretty interventionist in terms of military use, joining U.S. not just in Iraq but also Libya and Syria. A plurality of the British also support capital punishment despite it not being used.
I'm not sure the U.S. is actually puritanical about sexuality in the media. It's true there are strong differences about public health care and gun rights.
Would it not perhaps be more accurate to say that the GOP and it's supporters aren't remotely similar in these political arenas with the US Democratic party and it's supporters being similar in some areas?
Now from an outside point of view many of the GOP policies are contradictory, as I understand it the GOP is all about small government and keeping government out of peoples lives, except when it comes to Abortion as they are anti-choice, marriage as they seem to be anti-choice about who you can marry unless it's between a man and a woman etc...
Can you provide evidence to support your claim that a plurality of Brits support Capital Punishment?
This one is a few years old so it could have changed but support was only at 45% which would mean that 55% oppose so not a plurality in favour.
https://www.amnesty.org.uk/fifty-50-years-death-penalty-britain-uk
^From that 2014 poll, fewer (39%) were against it, with the rest undecided.
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/08/13/capital-punishment-50-years-favoured/
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/08/13/capital-punishment-50-years-favoured/
None of those governments even remotely came close to being as far to the right as GOP moderates, especially Blairs which was right only in terms of a labour government. Under Blair there was massive investment in public healthcare and education for instance, the introduction of Sure Start programs, massive restructuring and reform of social care specifically for learning disabilities and other disadvantaged groups. In the US the profession of learning disability nursing simply doesn't exist.
But those examples are exactly the point being made (possibly except Brown and Obama), they aren't cooperation, they are supplication, UK leaders following US lead in the hope of gaining good favour. That's not a "special relationship", it's being a lapdog and public support was low throughout.
A nearly 20% difference between top end brackets is huge, not to mention the UK tax office can in fact levy 50%.
Crucially though, there's a lot more to taxation than the top end, have you considered the distribution across the income range? I think you'll find a very different story.
As for British military interventions, you've just said it yourself, joining the US. That isn't a reflection of UK foreign policy in general or public opinion, it's about UK diplomacy with the US. It's about weak leaders following the US lead, which is exactly the complaint being made. We're the uncomfortable sidekicks to the schoolyard bully and public opinion is against that.
Please don't keep trying to convince me about public opinion over here to the "special relationship", all you are doing is highlighting the tendency for the US to dictate not only policy decisions but to make declarations about the beliefs, sympathies and best interests of other nations. It's literally an illustration of the arrogance and imperialism that so many object to.
If you were genuinely interested you'd listen to the feelings of your British counterparts rather than tell us about them.