Mental Wellness Support Group

[Gryffindorian]

I don't know what to tell you, except you most likely have a very disciplined, focused mind if you can keep it absolutely clear. Even when we're calm, or when we say we "would like to clear our heads," our brain is processing thoughts, emotions, and bodily sensations all the time. I remember my class facilitator who was a psychiatrist say that even Buddhist monks get "monkey brains" even after years or decades of meditation practice.

I'm curious. Have you tried meditation? It's not just for OCD sufferers or other people with mental health conditions. The class instructor said that everyone should aim for a minimum of 45 minutes a day and go progressively longer. I can do only 10 minutes at a time. I used to meditate longer and more frequently throughout the day, especially when I was feeling down in the dumps.

 

[Gryffindorian]

We get an average of 50,000 to 70,000 thoughts every day. This is why I find it hard to imagine that anyone living and conscious can have a blank mind. I would say that people with anxiety disorders are even more likely to have unstable thought patterns than those without, i.e., catastrophizing, ruminating, and latching on to certain thoughts.

Every memory, every itch, pain, tingle, scent, taste, hunger, craving, thirst, moment of joy, sadness, anger or fear has to register somehow. I think about the conversations I had with specific persons during the day. I think about what I ate for breakfast or what I'm going to have for lunch. I get annoyed with certain TV or radio commercials. I feel the aches of my tennis elbow that's been hurting for six weeks. I fantasize about two guys I work with. I get turned on. Don't even get me started on our culture of distraction and our obsession with social media.

Even when you have to actively populate your mind with images, you're still making a conscious effort to think. The absence of images in your head doesn't make it blank when you have all these other thought processes, as well as sensory data from your body.

 

[rhubarbodendron]

Good point!
Is it just me or does everyone tend to worry more and to catastrophize (great word! =) ) the older they get? I find that lately I get rather thin-skinned, worry far more and take anger from work home with me - something I never used to do.
And there's been a sort of quantum-leap after my depression. It's as if therapy tore down not just my blockages but also my shields.
Has anyone else made the same experience? Is it typical or just a personal propblem?

 

[Twilight Phoenix]

It's as if therapy tore down not just my blockages but also my shields.
Has anyone else made the same experience? Is it typical or just a personal propblem?

From personal experience, it's common and could probably be a decompensation effect. When we suffer from psychosis, no matter which (depression, anxiety, PTSD...) our brain does what it can to compensate the effects of the psychosis so we can keep surviving - that's compensation.
When we go throught therapy, and even get meds, and things begin going well again, the brain generally stops compensating. And we suddenly feel things like we were more vulnerable, more fragile ; but this actually how we would have felt the whole time if the brain didn't make survival adjustements. This is called decompensation.


By the way...Taking Alprazolam again, with camomil and valerian tablets. And magnesium. I've been going throught so impressive mood swings and panic attacks lately that I'm feeling exhausted...

 

[rhubarbodendron]

Awww *huggles TauCygna* I hope you'll get better soon!
That decompensation theory makes sense. Now I just have to get my brain to put the shields up again. And I could do with a new warp core, too. My energy levels are pretty low. What I need is a cross-breed of Geordy and Scotty! (thank heavens for German gallows humour... Saves me at least twice a day from going completely crazy)

 

[Twilight Phoenix]

Awww *huggles TauCygna* I hope you'll get better soon!

Thank you Rhubarb :3
Life feels so exhausting right now, but I try to remember good days will come back. They always do.

 

[rhubarbodendron]

they do indeed =) The problem is just that sometimes they seem to come back at the pace of an ambling snail with corns.

 

[Twilight Phoenix]

Yes...Sometimes it feels like being glued, do you see what I mean ? Like everything is moving fast around me, but I'm glued in an alternate state that changes soooo sloooowwwwlyyyyy....
In those moments, I remind myself to deal only with today. And not to think about how it will be tomorrow. Today is enough work for today, lol !

 

[TrickyDickie]

We get an average of 50,000 to 70,000 thoughts every day. This is why I find it hard to imagine that anyone living and conscious can have a blank mind. I would say that people with anxiety disorders are even more likely to have unstable thought patterns than those without, i.e., catastrophizing, ruminating, and latching on to certain thoughts.

Every memory, every itch, pain, tingle, scent, taste, hunger, craving, thirst, moment of joy, sadness, anger or fear has to register somehow. I think about the conversations I had with specific persons during the day. I think about what I ate for breakfast or what I'm going to have for lunch. I get annoyed with certain TV or radio commercials. I feel the aches of my tennis elbow that's been hurting for six weeks. I fantasize about two guys I work with. I get turned on. Don't even get me started on our culture of distraction and our obsession with social media.

Even when you have to actively populate your mind with images, you're still making a conscious effort to think. The absence of images in your head doesn't make it blank when you have all these other thought processes, as well as sensory data from your body.

I think that many in the psychology field build up bias and lose objectivity. They see X number of cases that follow a similar general pattern and pretty soon they are too closely following that. When someone else comes along who is not better or worse but genuinely different, the reaction is often disbelief. Again, what small percentage of the total population of humans have they seen, read about, etc?

I think that humans have a lot of latent abilities that are suppressed by society and environment.

I had very controlling parents and, from age 7 to age 10, a very twisted form of Catholicism that told kids if they were not good they were going to Hell. 'Good' was very involved. Part of it was the directive not to listen too much to your own inner 'voice' because it could be easily influenced by Satan. When you are that age and adults are rather deranged and you are not aware of that, you try to comply with what you are being told. It gets very confusing. What you think is good might be bad. So, sometimes you end up managing to somehow shut the whole thing down because it's just too much to deal with.

Over time, I have managed to recover from all of that, on my own, but my inner voice is not constantly active throughout the day. Far from it. The 50,000-70,000 thoughts per day? Not by a long shot. Nowhere close to that.

 

[Gryffindorian]

@TrickyDickie, I'm sorry if I sounded dismissive or condescending. That was not my intention. I only meant to emphasize the notion that our minds are often distracted not only by external stimuli but also by their own mental processes, especially relative to practicing meditation.

An interesting analogy that I picked up is that when we try to meditate, we often try to control the flow of traffic (thoughts), as though we were standing in the middle of the road and getting overwhelmed by all the passing vehicles. The key is to let all the traffic flow, sit black, and let things be. Mindfulness is being, not doing. Trying to resist, change, or push away certain thoughts doesn't work and sometimes has the opposite effect of making things worse. There are also other elements involved, like self-compassion, loving-kindness, open curiosity, and acceptance without judgment.

 

[Gryffindorian]

Good point!
Is it just me or does everyone tend to worry more and to catastrophize (great word! =) ) the older they get? I find that lately I get rather thin-skinned, worry far more and take anger from work home with me - something I never used to do.
And there's been a sort of quantum-leap after my depression. It's as if therapy tore down not just my blockages but also my shields.
Has anyone else made the same experience? Is it typical or just a personal propblem?

I can somewhat relate, @rhubarbodendron. I've found lately that I've been irritable with certain people at work. My department has seen a lot of changes over the past five years, with many people leaving/retiring and many newcomers too. I don't enjoy working in accounting as much as I did several years ago when I felt I "connected" more with others. It could be just stress-related too, which is why I need that one week vacation in Oahu.

 

[TrickyDickie]

@TrickyDickie, I'm sorry if I sounded dismissive or condescending. That was not my intention.

Nope, didn't take it as such.

I am going to experiment with meditation when I get some time.

I know that music doesn't work for me, because I get far too emotionally involved.

 

[Avro Arrow]

Is it just me or does everyone tend to worry more and to catastrophize (great word! =) ) the older they get?

I have always catastrophized (although admittedly I didn't know the word for it until therapy), and have not specifically noticed it getting worse with time. To be fair, though, it's always been fairly intense, so maybe there's just not a lot of room to increase? Or maybe it actually will get worse later on... something to look forward to??

 

[TrickyDickie]

I have always catastrophized

Sometimes, that can negatively affect judgment and cause one to take unilateral action when it is not objectively warranted.

It's worth noting that one person's allergy may be another's cure....that goes for many things in life.

Also, if we slap the label of 'anecdotal' on everything that comes along, just because it's not yet widely known, that is a roadblock to progress.

These things are very relevant to this thread, but they apply elsewhere as well and you know what I am referring to.

 

[Avro Arrow]

Sometimes, that can negatively affect judgment and cause one to take unilateral action when it is not objectively warranted.

You know nothing of me or my situation, but I will tell you that my catastrophizing usually results in crippling inaction.

But of course, that doesn't really fit the narrative of your post. On that point, however...

they apply elsewhere as well and you know what I am referring to.

Yes, in fact I do. And I would thank you to please not make complaints about moderator actions in unrelated threads. If you feel you have been wronged, there is an escalation process, and this is not it. Please do not do this again.

And on a personal note, may I just say that I find your decision to use a post in a support group thread against me, because of a moderator action, very questionable. Although, perhaps, not surprising; I guess I should have expected *someone* to do so. Live and learn, I suppose.

 

[Jayson1]

Have you been diagnosed with OCD or some form of anxiety? One thing that bothers me (and I'm not necessarily referring to you in this case) is when people use the term "OCD" loosely to refer to meticulous personal habits such as washing hands frequently and keeping things very organized. OCD is much more than that; if it doesn't bother you, then it can't be that bad. It consists of obsessions (unwelcome thoughts) and compulsions (rituals to try to make oneself feel better). These can be debilitating to the point that they affect one's daily life.

And in my case, Prozac has done wonders. I'm not suggesting that everyone take pills. There are other options. But there's certainly nothing wrong with taking meds. It's almost as if our society has been conditioned into thinking that pharmaceuticals are the bane of existence. Well, I've got news for those who think that way. I also have family histories of Type 2 diabetes, hypertension, and high cholesterol. Not all of us have disease-free genes; sometimes lifestyle changes aren't enough. I'm very thankful for my meds and access to great health care provided by my employer.

I agree. People don't understand that OCD is not just the Monk style Quirks or the need to be super clean etc. Especially when it comes to unwelcome thoughts. That was a big issue I would have when it first started to be a problem. I would have very dark and disturbing thoughts and then you would try and push them out of your mind which means they would only keep coming back. You begin to even think of yourself as a monster because you think it means their is something very wrong basically with your soul. Just one example I would have the thought of telling my grandma I didn't love her even though I did. Then it gets where you can't even look at people because your so ashamed of yourself. I would cry just about anytime I would look at a photo of a family member.
I've always felt part of it was because I grew up as a perfectionist when it came to how I judge myself. I never drank or did drugs or even when I admited to my mom I liked girls I cried because I thought it made me dirty somehow. Never felt this way towards others but when it came to me I was always very harsh. The idea I had in my head which is still their is that even when I did something good I never trusted it because I always had this question" Am I doing something good because I am good or is because of some other motivation." Human motivation is a big deal with me which is why I have a hard time judging most people even when they sometimes do the wrong things. I'm even one of those people who even see's something like love having a downside because their is a selfish component to it in that you want love because YOU want to be happy instead of being 100% selflish.
I did have some of the quirks as well. The need to push on the fridge door 5 times to make sure it's closed or touch the visor on my truck until it "felt right" I would feel compelled to lick metal or dirty object or drink old soda though I pretty much avoided those except one sip of a old diet coke or something once. Sometimes I need to have phrases in my head sound right. That scene with DiCapario in "The Avaitor" at the end where he keeps repeating the same thing is something I have done before. Even when I watch tv or read I sometimes feel the need to rewind or re-read something until it also feels right.
I think being lonely also plays a big part. I had the imaginary friend in my head the first time I basically tried to kill myself and even though I knew she wasn't real because it wasn't a hullicination I was just desperate for any connection I kind of went their and then I tried to let her tell me to drive my truck into a lake. I stopped before I made it the whole way but I know I told my doctors about it soon after. Then I had the panic attacks which means I had problems leaving the house. Also one thing you can forget is that people can't really see what is going on in your mind but you can feel like that if they look at you they will see the horrible things going on inside your mind. I would be freaking out inside I thought everyone just somehow knew what I was thinking yet most people didn't know, except after awhile my mom could sort of pick up on it. Something in my facial expressions.

Jason

 

[Twilight Phoenix]

Especially when it comes to unwelcome thoughts. That was a big issue I would have when it first started to be a problem. I would have very dark and disturbing thoughts and then you would try and push them out of your mind which means they would only keep coming back. You begin to even think of yourself as a monster because you think it means their is something very wrong basically with your soul.

Agreed. People tend to think aboit OCD only as observable behaviours, but the invisible obsessive thoughts are just as hard to live with. Especially when they're dark, very negative or even suicidal...
However, sometimes exciting and fun obsessive thoughts aren't better, because the pleasure they provide can quickly become addictive. I don't feel like talking in depth about the matter, but the line between normal thoughts and compulsive thoughts easily gets blurred. When you start getting more satisfaction from your obsessive thoughts than from your real life, this is a huge red flag.

I totally get that "monster feeling"...I used to feel like a defective, gross anomaly when I was younger...
Nowadays I'm better, mostly because I went throught therapy and it helped a lot. But that "monster feeling" sometimes comes back when I'm under pressure, during panic attacks and when I'm experiencing extreme mood swings.

 

[Jayson1]

Agreed. People tend to think aboit OCD only as observable behaviours, but the invisible obsessive thoughts are just as hard to live with. Especially when they're dark, very negative or even suicidal...
However, sometimes exciting and fun obsessive thoughts aren't better, because the pleasure they provide can quickly become addictive. I don't feel like talking in depth about the matter, but the line between normal thoughts and compulsive thoughts easily gets blurred. When you start getting more satisfaction from your obsessive thoughts than from your real life, this is a huge red flag.

I totally get that "monster feeling"...I used to feel like a defective, gross anomaly when I was younger...
Nowadays I'm better, mostly because I went throught therapy and it helped a lot. But that "monster feeling" sometimes comes back when I'm under pressure, during panic attacks and when I'm experiencing extreme mood swings.

I agree therapy helps. Also the ability to forgive yourself I think goes along way as well. I have noticed I decrease in the number of OCD moments by me simply allowing myself to be human. Even getting angry sometimes. It's weird but when I would have some of these dark and disturbing thoughts they usually came like you said when your feeling pressure but for me it also would happen whenever I noticed I might be happy for to long. Being happy doesn't feel natural and then my mind would start to basically attacking myself. Yet when I get angry their's nothing. Maybe that's because anger so quickly transfers back to depression which feels like the most natural way to be feeling all the time. Also have you have had those moments were you kind of forget you have OCD? Maybe you haven't had a intrussive thought for awhile or maybe you just woke up and then for whatever reason you remember and then the thoughts come flooding in. I have noticed also that even when I don't have them I always feel a kind of tense like they can happen anytime and you just never know when they will come. It's that kind of "waiting for the other shoe to drop" type of feeling. Granted that is how I feel about alot of things with my life because of family conflicts and so forth. I know everytime I go to bed that I might wake up to some terrible tragic news. It doesn't help that it seems to happen alot. I wake up and my niece is having seizures and my sister is scared and crying or I wake up to find out my grandma has died or I wake up and find my other sister's husband has hit her.

Jason

 

[IronWaffle]

This story may not be news to folks here but (whatever one’s take on the actor as a person, persona or his TNG character) I think this is worth sharing here:

My name is Wil Wheaton. I Live With Chronic Depression and Generalized Anxiety. I Am Not Ashamed. (June 1, 2018).

I’m excerpting three passages because I think they may be valuable in-thread but the piece is considerably longer and I recommend it for anyone who finds themselves in this thread.

Through my twenties, I continued to suffer, and not just from nightmares and panic attacks. I began to develop obsessive behaviors that I’ve never talked about in public until right now. Here’s a very incomplete list: I began to worry that the things I did would affect the world around me in totally irrational ways. I would hold my breath underneath bridges when I was driving, because if I didn’t, maybe I’d crash my car. I would tap the side of an airplane with my hand while I was boarding, and tell it to take care of me when I flew places for work, because I was convinced that if I didn’t, the plane would crash. Every single time I said goodbye to someone I cared about, my brain would play out in vivid detail how I would remember this as the last time I saw them. Talking about those memories, even without getting into specifics, is challenging. It’s painful to recall, but I’m not ashamed, because all those thoughts — which I thankfully don’t have any more, thanks to medical science and therapy — were not my fault any more than the allergies that clog my sinuses when the trees in my neighborhood start doin’ it every spring are my fault. It’s just part of who I am. It’s part of how my brain is wired, and because I know that, I can medically treat it, instead of being a victim of it.

That difference, between existing and living, is something I want to focus on for a minute: before I got help for my anxiety and depression, I didn’t truly live my life. I wanted to go do things with my friends, but my anxiety always found a way to stop me. Traffic would just be too stressful, it would tell me. It’s going to be a real hassle to get there and find parking, it would helpfully observe. And if those didn’t stop me from leaving my house, there was always the old reliable: What if…? Ah, “What if… something totally unlikely to happen actually happens? What if the plane crashes? What if I sit next to someone who freaks me out? What if they laugh at me? What if I get lost? What if I get robbed? What if I get locked out of my hotel room? What if I slip on some ice I didn’t see? What if there’s an earthquake? What if what if what if what if…

One of the many delightful things about having Depression and Anxiety is occasionally and unexpectedly feeling like the whole goddamn world is a heavy lead blanket, like that thing they put on your chest at the dentist when you get x-rays, and it’s been dropped around your entire existence without your consent.

Physically, it weighs heavier on me in some places than it does in others. I feel it tugging at the corners of my eyes, and pressing down on the center of my chest. When it’s really bad, it can feel like one of those dreams where you try to move, but every step and every motion feels like you’re struggling to move through something heavy and viscous. Emotionally, it covers me completely, separating me from my motivation, my focus, and everything that brings me joy in my life.

When it drops that lead apron over us, we have to remind ourselves that one of the things Depression does, to keep itself strong and in charge, is tell us lies, like: I am the worst at everything. Nobody really likes me. I don’t deserve to be happy. This will never end. And so on and so on. We can know, in our rational minds, that this is a giant bunch of bullshit (and we can look at all these times in our lives when were WERE good at a thing, when we genuinely felt happy, when we felt awful but got through it, etc.) but in the moment, it can be a serious challenge to wait for Depression to lift the roadblock that’s keeping us from moving those facts from our rational mind to our emotional selves.

And that’s the thing about Depression: we can’t force it to go away. As I’ve said, if I could just “stop feeling sad” I WOULD. (And, also, Depression isn’t just feeling sad, right? It’s a lot of things together than can manifest themselves into something that is most easily simplified into “I feel sad.”)

 

[Twilight Phoenix]

but for me it also would happen whenever I noticed I might be happy for to long. Being happy doesn't feel natural and then my mind would start to basically attacking myself.

It happens to be as well very often...Whenever I'm having a long period without a crisis, I can bet my brain will soon throw some anxious thoughts. Especially at the worst moments. I'm currently preparing my wedding but the closer I get to the big day, the more anxiety I go throught...and not "normal" anxious thoughts but toxic ones, like feeling I should absolutely run away as far as possible and leave everyone I know, unless awful things are going to happen. It's exhausting.


I had no idea Wil Wheaton had anxiety disorders. I totally empathize with him.