Poll Do you consider Discovery to truly be in the Prime Timeline at this point?

[johnnybear]

Get back to me when Romulans don't have that dumb forehead ridge in TNG+

They changed that to differentiate the Romulans from the Vulcans! Due to the fact that the audiences of that time and today probably couldn't! Not that I'm a fan of that ridge either! I much prefer the sinister looking Romulans of TOS who weren't as the same looking as these critters!
JB

 

[cooleddie74]

Caithlin Dar in TFF, Nanclus in TUC and Nero and his crew in Trek 2009 have TOS-style Romulan foreheads, though, which goes to show how willing to play around with the visual continuity even Prime Trek under Roddenberry, Bennett and Berman was. I prefer to think of it as just establishing that not all Romulans even in the TNG era have the little brow ridges and there is still a variety of physical appearances on Romulus and perhaps in Romulan colonies. Even the Romulan official Spock Prime is speaking with in 2387 in the mind meld flashback sequence looks like a TOS Romulan or even a Vulcan.

I like it. Which is all the more reason I want to see Augment Klingons and TNG-style warriors on DSC. There's room for more than one look in a vast interstellar empire.

 

[Jinn]

Not sure what you're alluding to here. Examples?...

For example Data says there is no record of any Federation vessel ever encountering anything that even vaguely resembles a hole in space, yet Kirk uses the exact phrase "hole in space" to describe the creature from "The Immunity Syndrome".

 

[Trekkin]

Why shouldn't diehard TOS 'types' be allowed to have a say? Without their devotion to this franchise it certainly wouldn't be on the television today!
JB

They changed that to differentiate the Romulans from the Vulcans! Due to the fact that the audiences of that time and today probably couldn't! Not that I'm a fan of that ridge either! I much prefer the sinister looking Romulans of TOS who weren't as the same looking as these critters!
JB

What’s with the exclamation marks?

Also, you do get a say. It’s just gets no greater priority than anyone else who’s ever watched the show and ‘did their bit.’ Including the writers.

For example Data says there is no record of any Federation vessel ever encountering anything that even vaguely resembles a hole in space, yet Kirk uses the exact phrase "hole in space" to describe the creature from "The Immunity Syndrome".

Not really a ‘visual’ reboot, but there’s the ‘After hours of searching, I found some previous captain who might have run into this before ...’ approach Riker and co take when referring to Kirk’s Enterprise during the Naked Now.

Compared to later movies and series which had the TOS characters as living legends, and their adventures as practically textbook content. There’s no in universe ‘explanation’ for the change, you just have to swallow it as a development in creative vision.

Also, DS9’s depiction of the TOS costumes don’t match the originals. As some very aggrieved ‘The shirts are green!!!’ fans could tell you.

 

[F. King Daniel]

The 1701-J is still a very distinct possibility and nothing ENT or Doug Drexler have stated would prevent the ship from eventually existing as we saw her in that episode.

In a world where the Klingon D7 and the classic Enterprise have been totally changed, I doubt they're gonna keep Drexler's Enterprise-J looking the same!

 

[cooleddie74]

LET ME HAVE MY DELUSIONS!!

 

[lawman]

They changed that to differentiate the Romulans from the Vulcans!...

What kind of sense does that make, though? The whole point of the Romulans, thematically speaking, from their very first appearance in "Balance of Terror," is that they're indistinguishable from Vulcans. Indeed they literally are Vulcans — the same species, but on a different planet with a different culture. That theme continued all the way through TNG, with Spock's "Unification" storyline. Why should they look different?

 

[Butters]

What kind of sense does that make, though? The whole point of the Romulans, thematically speaking, from their very first appearance in "Balance of Terror," is that they're indistinguishable from Vulcans. Indeed they literally are Vulcans — the same species, but on a different planet with a different culture. That theme continued all the way through TNG, with Spock's "Unification" storyline. Why should they look different?

I was planning to make this exact post when I returned from an errand, but you beat me to it.

 

[PiotrB]

So, in other words, with the "alternate reality" that was known as "Star Trek continuity" for the first 35 years of its existence?

There is now 17 years more (counting from 2001) of current state of ST continuity created by ENT. It's time to deal with this fact.

That's a gross overstatement. Such cloaking technology as was seen in ENT was very special indeed. It was either the product of very advanced future tech (by way of the Temporal Cold War), or it was something in very early development by the Romulans, imperfect and arguably subordinate to the holographic camouflage technology they were shown to rely on.

So? Our cloaking technology is even more primitive and no one would be as surprised as TOS characters in situation from mentioned episodes. Kylo Ren in this context is right:

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Certainly, whoever had cloaking in ENT, it was always clear that the Klingons didn't. The notion that they did completely undermines both "Balance of Terror" and "The Enterprise Incident."

No, it's not clear. If Klingons haven't got any knowledge about cloaking technology then why they only want holodeck from Xyrillians and not cloaking tech. Only logical answer is that they working on some form of better cloaking device and maybe later iteration of this work is used in DSC.

Suffice it to say that your ranking is almost the exact opposite of mine; out of thirteen items listed, the only thing we have in common in the top five is DS9.

TOS is too much 60s product to my taste. Maybe this is Netflix episodes order fault. But when you watch The Cage as first episode then every next episode is huge step backwards in characterization of women characters, campiness and overall style (this bright primary colours everywhere).

 

[F. King Daniel]

What kind of sense does that make, though? The whole point of the Romulans, thematically speaking, from their very first appearance in "Balance of Terror," is that they're indistinguishable from Vulcans. Indeed they literally are Vulcans — the same species, but on a different planet with a different culture. That theme continued all the way through TNG, with Spock's "Unification" storyline. Why should they look different?

Because they thought their audience too stupid to understand?

 

[johnnybear]

What kind of sense does that make, though? The whole point of the Romulans, thematically speaking, from their very first appearance in "Balance of Terror," is that they're indistinguishable from Vulcans. Indeed they literally are Vulcans — the same species, but on a different planet with a different culture. That theme continued all the way through TNG, with Spock's "Unification" storyline. Why should they look different?

More proof that current and recent past showrunners haven't done their homework! I mean Brian Thompson appears as a Romulan with ridges in an episode of ENT which is set before TOS!!! We long term fans know all about the Romulans and their connections to the Vulcans but in TNG and DS9 they all look alike and have black hair and forehead ridges!!! So unless they do a story to explain that then we're stuck with it, Lawman!
JB

 

[fireproof78]

Nobody does; that's a straw man. I think it's fair to say we all agree that perfect 100% consistency is impossible, if for no other reason than that human beings are flawed creatures and mistakes happen when you're doing creative work under tight time and budget pressures.

However, I think it's fair to say that avoidable inconsistencies should in fact be avoided. And going out of one's way to introduce new inconsistencies obviously flies in the face of any attempt at consistent continuity.

Define avoidable. Since we don't know the creative and budget pressures that were demanded upon the production team, as well as some of Fuller's influences, I'm not just going to condemn the production team out of hand.

I do. After all, one of the key attractions of fiction is that it offers us worlds where events add up to make sense, rather than being arbitrary and inexplicable the way they are in reality.

Here is where you and I will part ways. Simply put, Star Trek is our future. That is a conceit of TOS. Whether or not that is identical in interpretation on screen is something that has varied over the incarnations. I know you and I don't agree on that point, but that's one reason why I don't need an explanation.

Another one is simply put the Time War. Things changes due to time travel shenanigans, rendering TOS era far different than before.

Or its a reboot.

At this point in time, it's exhausting to try and justify anything since it detracts away from the overall enjoyment of the show. Since my conceit is that Star Trek is in our future, I expect things to change.

Why shouldn't diehard TOS 'types' be allowed to have a say? Without their devotion to this franchise it certainly wouldn't be on the television today!
JB

So, should that diehard segment be the only one heard? How much adherence to the past must be made to satisfy one segment of the audience?

 

[Kemaiku]

Because they thought their audience too stupid to understand?

Given how many of them have behaved, right here, since then...I think they may have been on to something.

 

[XCV330]

Why shouldn't diehard TOS 'types' be allowed to have a say? Without their devotion to this franchise it certainly wouldn't be on the television today!
JB

because TV shows aren't, thank God, democracies?

 

[BillJ]

What kind of sense does that make, though? The whole point of the Romulans, thematically speaking, from their very first appearance in "Balance of Terror," is that they're indistinguishable from Vulcans. Indeed they literally are Vulcans — the same species, but on a different planet with a different culture. That theme continued all the way through TNG, with Spock's "Unification" storyline. Why should they look different?

I know it is done with an eye looking to the past that had not yet come, but I figured that what were to become the Romulans were likely a small number and that interbreeding with the Remans to grow their numbers led to some Romulans having forehead ridges.

I'm sure I've seen others with similar thoughts.

 

[BillJ]

because TV shows aren't, thank God, democracies?

They are to a degree, or else we wouldn't get fed the "visual reboot" non-sense to keep from pissing off some folks.

 

[Kemaiku]

because TV shows aren't, thank God, democracies?

Besides, diehards have been "having their say" non-stop, every day, for decades now. Loudly, at length. It's really not gone unnoticed, just that they're normally wrong.

 

[XCV330]

You seem to think the producers of DSC have some clear idea of what audience they're aiming to attract. I remain unconvinced.

I'm going with "As many as they possibly can".

Look they put in, in the first season a ridiculous amount of easter eggs for fans, but from comments by Isaacs (who knew a Toxic Fanbase years before he got involved with Trek) and others, they weren't going to break their back to try and appease every preexisting fan. It can't be done, anyway.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Caithlin Dar in TFF, Nanclus in TUC and Nero and his crew in Trek 2009 have TOS-style Romulan foreheads, though, which goes to show how willing to play around with the visual continuity even Prime Trek under Roddenberry, Bennett and Berman was. I prefer to think of it as just establishing that not all Romulans even in the TNG era have the little brow ridges and there is still a variety of physical appearances on Romulus and perhaps in Romulan colonies. Even the Romulan official Spock Prime is speaking with in 2387 in the mind meld flashback sequence looks like a TOS Romulan or even a Vulcan.

I like it. Which is all the more reason I want to see Augment Klingons and TNG-style warriors on DSC. There's room for more than one look in a vast interstellar empire.

I guess that means the TOS movies don't take place in the Prime Universe or Berman Trek doesn't. Take your pick.

 

[fireproof78]

I'm going with "As many as they possibly can".

Look they put in, in the first season a ridiculous amount of easter eggs for fans, but from comments by Isaacs (who knew a Toxic Fanbase years before he got involved with Trek) and others, they weren't going to break their back to try and appease every preexisting fan. It can't be done, anyway.

It's impossible to please everyone. I saw one comment in another sub-forum that said a Post-NEM uniform was "wrong" even though we've never seen a post-NEM series. Something is already wrong. There are many presuppositions that go in to Star Trek that such things could not be appeased.

I guess that means the TOS movies don't take place in the Prime Universe or Berman Trek doesn't. Take your pick.

Actually, only TOS is Prime, and that's the one with James R. Kirk. The rest is not