Disney Scraps Plans For Further Star Wars Storys

[starsuperion]

Let's think about that for a second though.

Rotten Tomatoes is available globally right? There are 197,800 people who submitted a rating for TLJ, yes? Domestically alone, TLJ sold approximately 67,594,900 tickets per Box Office Mojo. Because of varying international ticket prices, its harder to come to a number there. Regardless, that 198,000 is 0.2% of the approximate amount of tickets sold domestically. Not 2%. But Point Two percent. Now, I'm not stupid enough to suggest that 67.6 million people domestically saw TLJ. Of course not. People went multiple times. I went twice. At the same time, while I don't deal with statistics on a daily basis, a sample size of .2% doesn't seem like a particularly good one if you ask me. Add a global audience, and that .2% goes down. Way down.

Using myself as an example I didn't vote on RT. Most people who give positive reviews for something don't. If they have a real beef with something, sure. I used an example in another thread of how much shade I threw on a home warranty company and the repair company they sent to fix my air conditioning during a hot Texas summer last year. I posted a lot of negative reviews. I posted one positive review for the company who actually fixed my problem. Relating this back to Star Wars, or any fandom, how much do you hear from casual fans who just liked the movie? Or any movie or TV show? Not much. Because they're not going to care enough to vote for it or talk about it.

I'm not saying TLJ isn't divisive. I'm not saying it doesn't have its detractors. I'm not saying that some of these people who didn't like it don't have good arguments for their reasons not to. I'm saying I think its time to stop using the RT score as an end all, be all measuring stick that people hate this film. SOME fans hate this film. And that's their right to. But unless you can actually find me a decent sample statistical set that the majority of people in the world who saw TLJ hated it? I can't take it seriously.

TLJ will not define what happens with the franchise. Solo, likely, with the information that has come out in recent days about Disney being unwilling to move the release date or market the film properly, will not define what happens with the franchise. This is something that will happen with Episode IX and whatever comes next. And likely, with the Johnson trilogy and Benioff-Weiss saga already announced will continue as planned. The worst that happens if a decline continues is that they will go with a lower budget for those movies. But no one is kicking Kathleen Kennedy or Rian Johnson out the door at the moment. If the rumors about Kennedy leaving later this year are true, its because she wanted to leave. With all of the hate she gets from certain sects of fandom, I wouldn't say I would particularly blame her.

You're argument sounds logical, except how many producers and heads of companies leave their lucrative career over 1 movie bombing, and fan backlash? Kennedy's leaving is most likely more then just " fan hate". As for RT scores, no it's not the end all be all, neither is there anything showing fan consensus on liking or supporting TLJ. So I guess either side of this argument we are all talking out of our rear with no real reliable stats, except the sales numbers on solo. I'll reserve judgement until the sales figures on episode IX come in.

 

[DigificWriter]

Oh, well I'll be sure to let him know next time I run into him. He must have been high on spores and imagined it.

As I noted, what he says has been refuted by both Abrams and Johnson.

 

[Spot261]

Are you sure you're not Scott Mendelson? You're defense of the movies is admirable, and political views well received. but if all was well and hunky dorey, then why is Lucas Film reorganizing?? Also. The click campaign you mentioned on RT scores has been debunked as "Fake News" I'm sure someone with you're intellect is familiar with that term.

Lots of things are dubbed as fake news, all depends who does the dubbing, but when a score drops from 91 to 46 and that drop coincides with a highly visible campaign it's hard not to see the connection, especially when less malleable and more objective measures sit comfortably with the first, unbiased, score.

I'm not sold that the film was great by any stretch, don't get me wrong, but the idea it is facing an overwhelming backlash from the fandom is patently false. This thread alone and the number of fans defending it should give you pause for thought. Count up the thread as to the number of people on each "side" and you'll see my point readily enough.

The film isn't great, no, but it isn't awful and it isn't outside of the expected norms, spirit or structure of a Star Wars film. It's lowbrow but exciting and at least makes an attempt to move out of the collection of tropes that have come to define the franchise. It's in many ways a response to the criticisms levelled at TFA and the hate must be very confusing given it's almost exactly what many were claiming they wanted when tearing TFA apart, but it's amazing how that film is now seemingly redeemed, how all the vitriol directed against seem to have been forgotten in the haze of rose tinted glasses.

 

[Campe]

Am I the only one who was totally satisfied with who her parents turned out to be?

You aren’t the only one. I find it refreshing that she’s just a person who happens to be Force-sensitive. As I’ve suggested before, the idea behind Luke back during ANH was that anyone could access the Force. There was no discussion of the Skywalker Legacy. Luke wanted to learn the ways of the Force and become a Jedi like his father. There was no midichlorians explaining why people are Force sensitive. There was no talk of needing to be a child of a Jedi. It was: If you wanted it, and you let it in, you could reach the Force and be a Jedi. Rey’s story and not being connected to anyone important brings that back to the universe. I love it.

 

[Kibbin]

As I noted, what he says has been refuted by both Abrams and Johnson.

Out of the three I know who I trust and yes that does mean I'm going with the minority rather than the logical majority. Colour me silly but i it possible, just possible mind, that someone asked JJ to back up Rian on this contentious point to give the appearance of a united front for a new and growing franchise rather than a divided one with no clear direction?

 

[Spot261]

Am I the only one who was totally satisfied with who her parents turned out to be?

Nope, I actually think it was one of the best things about the film, it made being a force user egalitarian again and moved away from the increasingly navel gazing small universe syndrome of the PT.

Kennedy's leaving is most likely more then just " fan hate".

She's leaving? I can't find that on google?

 

[DigificWriter]

Out of the three I know who I trust and yes that does mean I'm going with the minority rather than the logical majority. Colour me silly but i it possible, just possible mind, that someone asked JJ to back up Rian on this contentious point to give the appearance of a united front for a new and growing franchise rather than a divided one with no clear direction?

You aren’t the only one. I find it refreshing that she’s just a person who happens to be Force-sensitive. As I’ve suggested before, the idea behind Luke back during ANH was that anyone could access the Force. There was no discussion of the Skywalker Legacy. Luke wanted to learn the ways of the Force and become a Jedi like his father. There was no midichlorians explaining why people are Force sensitive. There was no talk of needing to be a child of a Jedi. It was: If you wanted it, and you let it in, you could reach the Force and be a Jedi. Rey’s story and not being connected to anyone important brings that back to the universe. I love it.

The idea that Lucas' introduction of the Midichloreans changed the nature of the Force and who could and could not tap into the Force is a misconception that is refuted by numerous Canonical sources.

 

[Campe]

You're argument sounds logical, except how many producers and heads of companies leave their lucrative career over 1 movie bombing, and fan backlash? Kennedy's leaving is most likely more then just " fan hate". As for RT scores, no it's not the end all be all, neither is there anything showing fan consensus on liking or supporting TLJ. So I guess either side of this argument we are all talking out of our rear with no real reliable stats, except the sales numbers on solo. I'll reserve judgement until the sales figures on episode IX come in.

And that is all I’m suggesting. We need to wait until we have more info before we can see what damage is there and how it looks.

 

[Tuskin38]

The idea that Lucas' introduction of the Midichloreans changed the nature of the Force and who could and could not tap into the Force is a misconception that is refuted by numerous Canonical sources.

Alright, provide these sources then.

 

[Kibbin]

The idea that Lucas' introduction of the Midichloreans changed the nature of the Force and who could and could not tap into the Force is a misconception that is refuted by numerous Canonical sources.

Don't forget this is the same JJ who said that there was totally a plan going into Lost and then later said there was no plan they were just told to say there was one. This is the same JJ who said this was definitely not Khan and then gave us STID

 

[Spot261]

The idea that Lucas' introduction of the Midichloreans changed the nature of the Force and who could and could not tap into the Force is a misconception that is refuted by numerous Canonical sources.

Yes ones written after the fact of that introduction. When all we had was the OT the sense was very different, the Force was egalitarian and becoming a Jedi was something aspirational, not inherited. That was part of the appeal and why the franchise became so popular, it encapsulated the "feel good" essence of human spirit stories, the idea one can break out of one's upbringings and become more, much like the "Rocky" movies or any number of fantasy stories following the Hero's journey.

That was counterbalanced by the themes of destiny, sure, but crucially no one knew what their destiny was in advance, it wasn't spelled out to them and everyone had the potential to be that hero.

Rey brings that back. That's why she's so popular.

 

[fireproof78]

Personal opinion and I recognise that but if her parents aren't important why are they mentioned? Why do we get a shot of her holding that hand while a ship flies away? Why not have her just say my parents died when I was young. Maybe I was reading more into the movie than was there because this is JJ Abrams and he loves his mystery boxes. For evidence of this see any of his old works or less sarcastically see his Ted talk. As I say I can see why people would appreciate the subversion of expectations but it felt at odds with what came before, for me at least. Likewise for Snoke the Emperor did not have a backstory because there was nothing before Star Wars.

It is mentioned because it matters to Rey. Same with Snoke. Snoke's back story is less important to the audience as his appearance is far more his relationship with Kylo.

So, in that way, I do feel that many people (not just you) read far, far, more in to it than was intended.

It's out of character because as you say Luke isn't that well developed and thus is one of the few things we know about him. You've gone against one of the things we can say about him and thus it feels off and wrong.

But, when there is recognition of the personal tragedy that befell him, it is far more understandable than expecting Luke to not change at all.

 

[Kibbin]

It is mentioned because it matters to Rey. Same with Snoke. Snoke's back story is less important to the audience as his appearance is far more his relationship with Kylo.

So, in that way, I do feel that many people (not just you) read far, far, more in to it than was intended.


But, when there is recognition of the personal tragedy that befell him, it is far more understandable than expecting Luke to not change at all.

Bu why was the man who risked it all to save his father in the position of killing his nephew while he slept? You could have easily had Luke fall and stuck to his original character by having him ignore the warning signs with Ben. Assume he could save him like he did Vader and fail. The problem with this is that then you can't push Ben as a redeemable character to the people who like them dark, moody, buff and handsome.

 

[DigificWriter]

Yes ones written after the fact of that introduction. When all we had was the OT the sense was very different, the Force was egalitarian and becoming a Jedi was something aspirational, not inherited. That was part of the appeal and why the franchise became so popular, it encapsulated the "feel good" essence of human spirit stories, the idea one can break out of one's upbringings and become more, much like the "Rocky" movies or any number of fantasy stories following the Hero's journey.

That was counterbalanced by the themes of destiny, sure, but crucially no one knew what their destiny was in advance, it wasn't spelled out to them and everyone had the potential to be that hero.

Rey brings that back. That's why she's so popular.

Rey didn't "bring back" that concept because it was never "gone".

 

[Campe]

The idea that Lucas' introduction of the Midichloreans changed the nature of the Force and who could and could not tap into the Force is a misconception that is refuted by numerous Canonical sources.

You’re missing the point. Back in 1977, this was not the issue. In 2015, it also was not an issue.

 

[DigificWriter]

You’re missing the point. Back in 1977, this was not the issue. In 2015, it also was not an issue.

Huh?

 

[Spot261]

Rey didn't "bring back" that concept because it was never "gone".

That's a matter of opinion, many (I suspect most) would disagree with you.

It was, in fact, one of the main issues at the time over the introduction of the midichlorians and the growing emphasis in the EU on the hereditary nature of force sensitivity, it brought a sense that being a Jedi was a birthright, the force elitist rather than being the great leveller which flowed through all living things and united them.

 

[Spot261]

Huh?

He's right you know, try rereading his post.

 

[DigificWriter]

That's a matter of opinion

It really isn't.

 

[Campe]

Huh?

I don’t really care about midichlorians. While destiny in some situations is important in this franchise, that wasn't how the Force was initially presented. While I read some of the new comics, I don’t give much care to what canon offscreen does or doesn’t do. Most viewers just care about what’s in the films. Back in 1977, the idea of the Force and how to access it was that it was open to everyone. You just needed to be willing to make the commitment. That was Luke’s journey. Until ESB complicated the issue. Between Ezra who undergoes a similar journey to Luke, and many other characters in Rebels, Chirrut, Maz and yes, Rey, show that you don’t need to have that connection to someone important to be important. The midichlorians have been downplayed. So, regardless as to whether or not canon productions or publications mean to have family destiny play a big part in all thing Star Wars, that's not how it started. And having Rey not having a connection, in my opinion, makes her a stronger, more interesting character.