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Discovery Showrunners fired; Kurtzman takes over

Most people just want it to be good. Pointing out the countless places in which it was not is not them demanding it be done the way they would've wanted it done. Only them wanting it done better.

It's a little of Column A and a little of Column B. Some people are pointing out the ways the show could be improved and genuinely want it to be the case. Some other people only think it's good if it's what they want (and a few will accuse others of doing this when they're doing it themselves, thus making them hypocrites). And if it already happens to be what they want, they'll be damned if someone changes it to something else.
 
Most people just want it to be good. Pointing out the countless places in which it was not is not them demanding it be done the way they would've wanted it done. Only them wanting it done better. Any talk of it being set post voyager is because a prequel is filled with land mines. It can be done, and done well, but it's more difficult and ultimately the setting didn't help to tell a great story in season one. Wishing it is set in a place where there is mountains to build off of and an endless way to go, seems the logical place to set a Star Trek series if a reboot wasn't in the cards.

I think "good Star Trek" is one of the most subjective and varied things in the entire universe. And most people's definition of "good" in intense fandoms is "this is what I would have done"

So......I disagree. Back to square one.
 
It's a little of Column A and a little of Column B. Some people are pointing out the ways the show could be improved and genuinely want it to be the case. Some other people only think it's good if it's what they want (and a few will accuse others of doing this when they're doing it themselves, thus making them hypocrites). And if it already happens to be what they want, they'll be damned if someone changes it to something else.

It will be interesting to see, given the supposed arc change, how many people shift when S2 launches. Are there people who will appreciate the show because it is telling a different story in a different way? Likewise, are there people who really liked S1 who will be off-put by the new direction?
 
but...it's Star Trek!

Só centre left with a dash of right (no to transhumanism, yes to a fair chunk of liberalism, the baddies are extremes of either spectrum...the capitalists of the ferngi, the communism analogue of early Klingons, the Borg are bit of both...ultimate consumers, but also lack individual identity and work as a group) but of course that debate which rage as long as we have the is starfleet a military one. (If it is of course, along with the left side of it identity, it raises some interesting questions....)

The change in showrunners though....hmm. Well. It won’t be the first time. Ironic that Braga is doing so well over at the Orville, but McFarlane probably keeps him reigned in a tad, there’s no doubt it’s Seth’s show.
 
I have not read a bunch of pages, so forgive if I am echoing someone. But yeah, Trek in 2018 seems to ignore developments that are already here. Some have postulated the Eugenics Wars set us back in some ways or made us choose to do without some things. But a space navy populated by humans without serious use of AI and lacking transhumanism seems less futuristic than TOS in 1966. Though the DSC timeline does have 3D communication and touch screen gestures in the air. That's something.
 
I have not read a bunch of pages, so forgive if I am echoing someone. But yeah, Trek in 2018 seems to ignore developments that are already here. Some have postulated the Eugenics Wars set us back in some ways or made us choose to do without some things. But a space navy populated by humans without serious use of AI and lacking transhumanism seems less futuristic than TOS in 1966. Though the DSC timeline does have 3D communication and touch screen gestures in the air. That's something.

Yeah, but you've hit on another problem with a prequel series - the "technogap." Unsolvable - particularly by people who have so little imagination that they don't even try - and distracting.

Another intriguing aspect of this debate to me is the number of people claiming (some using quite intricate existential analysis) that anyone wanting a post- VOY series is some fanboy wanting Nog v. The Dominion, The Showdown (Again, And This Time, It's Personal!). No offense, but :lol:. I want a post-Voyager series because I liked that era, because it offers a rich array (sorry) of possibilities, and because it frees potential doofus showrunners from the technogap and canon transgressions. Also, that time in ST may have needed some rest 17 years ago, but now it's prequels and reboots that require a nap. Stat. :hugegrin:
 
Personally I just didn't want a post-VGR series because the novels got that covered and such a series would most likely contradict them in some way.
 
Yeah, but you've hit on another problem with a prequel series - the "technogap." Unsolvable - particularly by people who have so little imagination that they don't even try - and distracting.

Another intriguing aspect of this debate to me is the number of people claiming (some using quite intricate existential analysis) that anyone wanting a post- VOY series is some fanboy wanting Nog v. The Dominion, The Showdown (Again, And This Time, It's Personal!). No offense, but :lol:. I want a post-Voyager series because I liked that era, because it offers a rich array (sorry) of possibilities, and because it frees potential doofus showrunners from the technogap and canon transgressions. Also, that time in ST may have needed some rest 17 years ago, but now it's prequels and reboots that require a nap. Stat. :hugegrin:
Fix magic tech, technobabble, and time travel shenanigans and I'll be interested.
 
Fix magic tech, technobabble, and time travel shenanigans and I'll be interested.

Be happy to! Magic tech is actually one of the easiest issues to solve despite the odd claim that it's some unbreachable wall. They can start by explaining how things work again. Remember when we all knew how and why things worked on a starship, Lt. Saavik? Now the JJBridge and the DISC bridge look like Apple stores with absolutely no sense of functionality or purpose. I challenge anyone to educate me on what any given station on Discovery's bridge, based on a single line of dialogue, is supposed to do other than Detmer's helm. Silly techosplanations can go out the same airlock, and not including time travel is fairly easy.

So, see you at the new series? :bolian::techman: And wait - why in the heck did you like DISC again? :wtf:
 
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Now the JJBridge and the DISC bridge look like Apple stores with absolutely no sense of functionality or purpose. I challenge anyone to educate me on what any given station on Discovery's bridge, based on a single line of dialogue, is supposed to do other than Detmer's helm. Silly techosplanations can go out the same airlock, and not including time travel is fairly easy.

The bridge of the Kelvin Enterprise looks like an Apple Store. Bar-none. The Discovery bridge really doesn't. It's not white and super-shiny. It's more like Galactica meets the Star Trek VI Enterprise-A but a bit more spacious.
 
Regarding the post-VOY thing: People always seem to forget that the prequel fever started with ENT, which was a Berman-era show. Hence if you think ENT (rather than say late period VOY) is what killed the franchise, you can't really claim people were sick of the 24th century.



I think you're wrong. Berman needed to go, along with the whole "format" of Berman-era Trek. But you could have told different sorts of stories within the Trek format and had it still interesting. What about an entire series following Starfleet Intelligence agents working against the Orion Syndicate? Or a Federation science ship which basically focuses on xenoarcheology, looking for the great relics of advanced races millions of years old? How about focusing not on the "best of the best" but a crew of mediocre folks on a humdrum ship, focusing upon character dynamics. Hell, a Trekkian comedy would even be possible while remaining within continuity. There were many possibilities. The problem is that Berman & Co. developed a tight-fitting straitjacket that only DS9 partially escaped.
I am still waiting on Starfleet Academy show they promised about 20 years ago.
 
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The bridge of the Kelvin Enterprise looks like an Apple Store. Bar-none. The Discovery bridge really doesn't. It's not white and super-shiny. It's more like Galactica meets the Star Trek VI Enterprise-A but a bit more spacious.

Dunno. I think I even saw some lens flares on DISC, did I not? Good call on the welcome lack of white, though. And I wouldn't have the slightest idea how to turn on a monitor or hit F5 on the NuGalactica bridge (nor would anyone else), but the Enterprise-A bridge is a masterpiece except for the unfortunate number of people standing. The bridge on DISC was another sad fail. :sigh::shrug:
 
Avoiding problems with a prequel is easy enough: go post Voyager Or,if you must, go between ENT and the Cage whne you have more freedom.
 
Remember when we all knew how and why things worked on a starship, Lt. Saavik?
Sorry, but, are you being sarcastic there? I have no clue what the hell anything on the original Enterprise's bridge does other than "that's the console they use to fly the ship", "that's the thingy Spock looks at", "that's the random button Nichelle Nichols presses when she pretends to hail another ship" and "that's the slot where the super important paper read-outs come from".
 
Avoiding problems with a prequel is easy enough: go post Voyager Or,if you must, go between ENT and the Cage whne you have more freedom.

Or just stop the endless navel-gazing. Tell some stories that aren't about Klingon in-fighting or the Mirror Universe or Sarek or Section 31 or Khan's blood or secret chapters of Federation history. Think less "Star Trek" and more "Wagon Train to the stars."
 
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If you really want to get scientific, it's actually nearly impossible for humanoid species to exist on other worlds. We are the result of billions of years of evolution in reaction to specific events on our planet. See this:

I dunno if I'd say nearly impossible. There was a lot of parallel evolution in Earth history. For example, just about anything which swims through water, due to physics, is going to look a lot like a fish. One can argue things like bilateral symmetry and a front/back end are highly likely. Thus a 'head" is also likely, which will contain most of the sensory organs. The species will likely need limbs for both locomotion and tool manipulation. As a result, even if you don't get a humanoid, you would get something which would be roughly comprehensible most of the time.

Of course, there's an in-universe explanation which is given in Trek - the ancient humanoids. Honestly if I were rebooting Trek, I'd go one further and explain that the Iconians took ancient humans off the earth and genetically modified them and spread them across the galaxy through their gateway system. It would help toe explain how humans can interbreed with virtually any humanoid alien race.

Aside from budgetary concerns (alien aliens would have to be entirely done via CGI or puppetry) there is an additional issue in terms of execution. Basically, if you make aliens realistically alien, they stop being "characters" as we understand them, and become something more akin to plot devices. Written sci-fi can get around this because some of the plot can be from the POV of the aliens, allowing us a view into their internal mindset, but this would be difficult to accomplish on screen.

Fuller was the one who decided to have familiar races redesigned though.

All we really know is Fuller insisted the Klingons be bald before he left. They might have made the makeup redesign more elaborate - and applied it to all Klingon houses - after he left.

Also IIRC, the anthology idea was meant to follow a different crew each season, not the discovery

Sort of. The idea was Season 2 would introduce the new cast, have the show flip back and forth between the two crews for the first 3-5 episodes, and then switch over exclusively to the new crew.

We're not going to save the planet, the galaxy, or the universe. We're going to save... the multiverse!! When they basically said this, it was so disappointing. Telling a story that large with such far reaching consequences for failure meant ultimate success from the jump, for one, for another it never had to be such a large ante to begin with. A small story set in that time period in the lead up to TOS could've been amazing.

Yeah. As I said before, the show was seriously thematically muddled in general. It had these ambitions of telling this quadrant-spanning story. Yet what was shown to us onscreen was extremely confined. We were supposed to be following the arc of the entire Klingon War, but basically only had four "named Klingons" introduced across the entire series. The same six guest stars kept popping up again and again, and all of the major aspects of the arc implausibly revolved around them. The Discovery felt like an empty ship, and the crew barely ever got a chance to go anywhere which felt densely populated. I think a lot of this was budget-related, but it meant that the overall structure - which was honestly rather like a stage play - was very ill suited for the epicness they had aspirations to achieve. A "small bore" plot focusing on the personal redemption of Burnham would have been much better shorn from the whole saving the multiverse, being personally "responsible" for the Klingon War, etc.
 
And I wouldn't have the slightest idea how to turn on a monitor or hit F5 on the NuGalactica bridge (nor would anyone else),

In fairness, they were cutting corners on Galactica Actual. They just slapped everything together. "Are you telling me they cut corners?" Whatever parts fit together, they slapped it on, and sent them off in a hurry. Had to go fight the Cylons.
 
In fairness, they were cutting corners on Galactica Actual. They just slapped everything together. "Are you telling me they cut corners?" Whatever parts fit together, they slapped it on, and sent them off in a hurry. Had to go fight the Cylons.

:lol: True enough!
 
I don't understand why he gets so much criticism from the fan base given his contributions. He had an amazing run.
I'm a Berman fan, or fan of the Berman era of Trek (TNG-ENT). I never got the criticism against him either. He was a lot more faithful to Roddenberry's vision than either Abrams, or CBS. Sometimes I think the Star Trek fan base is just as toxic as the Star Wars fan base.
 
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