"The Cloud Minders"

[Phaser Two]

I always struggle with people who can't get their heads wrapped around a character's actions which seem surprising to them.

The character DID what they did. People do it in life every single day. It's amazing how unpredictable and "out of character" real live people can be. Spock in particular is a very unpredictable fictional character and always has been.

So to your point, this minor element never took me out of the story.

Exactly. Spock's actions were always unpredictable. Plus I thought it was fan service acknowledging our favorite Vulcan's sex appeal to have Spock conversing with a woman like that (also seen with Zarabeth an ep or two later and with Jadzia admiring him over Kirk in DS9'S "Trials"). But that didn't even seem to work because Droxine was allegedly "vapid." I didn’t get that at all. I found Diana Ewing's performance charming.

 

[Herbert]

But does that ruin the whole episode for you? Just asking because a lot of people's reactions to this one seem to stop and end with "Spock shouldn't have been interested in Droxine." The two have maybe three to four minutes of screen time together and there is a ton more going on.

No, it doesn't ruin the entire episode for me and you're right, there's a lot going on. I do find Droxine and her hoity toity attitude annoying. The cloud city is literally an ivory tower and she's the aloof princess who has no time for the rabble.

 

[plynch]

This element of the show never troubled me. Didn't know it was a trouble till I read it here. Like this ep a lot, just like much of S3. It's weird and cool.

 

[Vger23]

This element of the show never troubled me. Didn't know it was a trouble till I read it here. Like this ep a lot, just like much of S3. It's weird and cool.

I love S3 for this reason exactly. It feels more otherworldly and weird than S2 did. I love them all for their unique feel and take on Trek.

 

[Phaser Two]

No, it doesn't ruin the entire episode for me and you're right, there's a lot going on. I do find Droxine and her hoity toity attitude annoying. The cloud city is literally an ivory tower and she's the aloof princess who has no time for the rabble.

Gotcha. Dunno. In the end I think she shows much more awareness than Plasus (with whom she has a touching, realistic relationship). She says she'll go to the mines (presumably wearing a bit more cover) and is clearly interested in the views of both Kirk and Spock.

Another thing I really like about CM is that everything *works*. Mechanically, I mean. No one attempts to attack or invade the Enterprise. Its sensors and transporters work with pinpoint accuracy. The engines do not overheat or threaten to combust. The communicators function properly normally and under duress. And (big plot point for me, shocking, right?), a phaser functions on both stun and destroy as demanded. No godlike being appears to neutralize everything. It's all quite enjoyable.

 

[Phaser Two]

I love S3 for this reason exactly. It feels more otherworldly and weird than S2 did. I love them all for their unique feel and take on Trek.

Absolutely. S3 has some really unique situations and settings that are quite removed from S2 and light-years from S1. Despite a bare-bones budget.

 

[Vger23]

Absolutely. S3 has some really unique situations and settings that are quite removed from S2 and light-years from S1. Despite a bare-bones budget.

It seemed like there were far less "parallel Earth" stories and other Trek tropes as well.

 

[plynch]

Yes, S2 is Planet of the Hats season, and often a bit too well-oiled for me.

 

[Herbert]

Gotcha. Dunno. In the end I think she shows much more awareness than Plasus (with whom she has a touching, realistic relationship). She says she'll go to the mines (presumably wearing a bit more cover) and is clearly interested in the views of both Kirk and Spock.

Agreed. In the end, she proves to be at least open to ideas. Perhaps the cloud city under her rule (eventually) would be a more welcoming and open place for the troglites.

 

[Phaser Two]

Agreed. In the end, she proves to be at least open to ideas. Perhaps the cloud city under her rule (eventually) would be a more welcoming and open place for the troglites.

Right! I think that idea, combined with Vanna's well-taken suggestion that both Kirk and Plasus drop their mutual grievances - she made a good mediator - portend better days ahead for Ardana.

 

[Commishsleer]

No, it doesn't ruin the entire episode for me and you're right, there's a lot going on. I do find Droxine and her hoity toity attitude annoying. The cloud city is literally an ivory tower and she's the aloof princess who has no time for the rabble.

Ruins the episode for me. Puts it in my bottom 5 TOS episodes because of this despite the rest of the good stuff in the episode.
The scenes that especially irk me are the one where Droxine tells her Dad how adorbs Spock is and can he get him for her, where Spock does a captain log (or a dear diary) and says how beautiful and lovely Droxine is and is unaware of the fate of the miners when clearly she is and doesn't care and of course when Spock reveals that he only has sex every seven years (is that what he's saying - seriously?)

 

[Herbert]

Ruins the episode for me. Puts it in my bottom 5 TOS episodes because of this despite the rest of the good stuff in the episode.
The scenes that especially irk me are the one where Droxine tells her Dad how adorbs Spock is and can he get him for her, where Spock does a captain log (or a dear diary) and says how beautiful and lovely Droxine is and is unaware of the fate of the miners when clearly she is and doesn't care and of course when Spock reveals that he only has sex every seven years (is that what he's saying - seriously?)

If you look at Spock's "log" like a personal log entry from Next Gen, then it's not so unusual. However, it is one of those things (along with Spock's flirtations) that makes this episode odd, at least within the context of other TOS episodes. And I can't simply explain it away by saying that Spock is unpredictable. He's supposed to be a Vulcan (albeit half-human) and he makes it a point that he acts like a Vulcan and not a human. Vulcans are logical beings and as such are not chaotic and unpredictable. At least, that's how I look at it. You can't really use Spock's behavior in All Our Yesterdays as an example because he was reverting back to a time when Vulcans were emotional and savage. You can't use This Side of Paradise either because of the influence of the spores. This episode is different.
Any discrepancies in Spock's behavior can be explained away easily by saying the script for that episode dictated that he behave the way he did. Let's face it, no one was at the helm looking at scripts and trying to maintain a consistent view on Vulcan behavior.

 

[MAGolding]

But you'd need a Vulcan to perform it. Kirk's asking, "what options have you employed before as a society besides BZZZZAP!"

Well, obviously neither Stratos, the Federation, nor the worlds known to them have ever developed any better alternative to torture for interrogation purposes.

"The Man Trap"

SPOCK: Recommend we use truth serum, Captain.
KIRK: Doctor?
MCCOY: Well, I resist using it, but in this case the professor will give us the truth.

"Wolf in the Fold":

KIRK: Mister Spock, beam down a technician with a psycho-tricorder, please. Use these co-ordinates.

A woman beams down as Hengist leaves.)
KAREN: Lieutenant Karen Tracy reporting as ordered, Captain.
KIRK: Lieutenant, I want a twenty four hour regressive memory check made on Mister Scott.

Even after Lt. Tracy is murdered, there are still technicians who can operate a psycho-tricorder aboard.

KIRK: Mister Hengist. On the Enterprise, we can make a recording of the registrations of Mister Scott's conscious and subconscious mind. They will tell us what happened to him in the recent past.
MCCOY: There would be no room for doubt. We would know. And after all, that's what we're after, isn't it, Prefect? To know?

And of course telepathic species are so very, very rare that it would have been very difficult for Stratos to hire telepathic aliens as interrogators.

"The Empath":

KIRK: Without speech, how's she going to be able to understand us? Unless she's a telepath.
SPOCK: An unlikely possibility, Captain, since over ninety eight percent of the known telepathic species send thoughts as well as receive them. She's made no attempt to contact our minds.

 

[Phaser Two]

Well, obviously neither Stratos, the Federation, nor the worlds known to them have ever developed any better alternative to torture for interrogation purposes.

"The Man Trap"



"Wolf in the Fold":





Even after Lt. Tracy is murdered, there are still technicians who can operate a psycho-tricorder aboard.



And of course telepathic species are so very, very rare that it would have been very difficult for Stratos to hire telepathic aliens as interrogators.

"The Empath":

I'm not sure truth serum is torture of the same variety employed by the rulers of Ardana, and certainly a "regressive memory check" has nothing to do with it at all.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

And I can't simply explain it away by saying that Spock is unpredictable. He's supposed to be a Vulcan (albeit half-human) and he makes it a point that he acts like a Vulcan and not a human. Vulcans are logical beings and as such are not chaotic and unpredictable. At least, that's how I look at it. You can't really use Spock's behavior in All Our Yesterdays as an example because he was reverting back to a time when Vulcans were emotional and savage. You can't use This Side of Paradise either because of the influence of the spores. This episode is different.

Maybe it's the thin air getting to him.

 

[Herbert]

When did truth serum become torture? Is a Vulcan Mind Meld torture?

 

[Herbert]

Maybe it's the thin air getting to him.

But.....but....what about the planet Vulcan's thin air??????

 

[Commishsleer]

But.....but....what about the planet Vulcan's thin air??????

Maybe the explanation is that Spock got exposed to the zenite gas accidentally and thats why his IQ suddenly decreased.

 

[MAGolding]

I'm not sure truth serum is torture of the same variety employed by the rulers of Ardana, and certainly a "regressive memory check" has nothing to do with it at all.

Sarcasim.

When did truth serum become torture? Is a Vulcan Mind Meld torture?

I was being sarcastic.

 

[Herbert]

I was being sarcastic.

Sorry. I read so many batshit crazy theories and musings on this board, I assumed you were being serious.