Discovery Size Argument™ thread

[Gonzo]

The Klingon dialogue never bothered me, but the ship design did. If they'd have made an updated d7 in a similar vein to the updated Enterprise design, I'd be very happy with that.

I don't normally mind some Klingon dialogue but there was so much of it and listening to the actors trying to deliver their lines through all that unnecessary facial prosthetics was just painful, not the actors faults at all though.

I fast forwarded through most of it.

We may one day find out why they changed the Klingon ships but not the Federations, originally I thought it was due to legal issues but they had no trouble giving us a recognisable Enterprise so it cant be that.

 

[Tuskin38]

We may one day find out why they changed the Klingon ships but not the Federations, originally I thought it was due to legal issues but they had no trouble giving us a recognisable Enterprise so it cant be that.

CBS also came out and said they own the rights to the TOS Enterprise after.

 

[Gonzo]

CBS also came out and said they own the rights to the TOS Enterprise after.

Well I just hope it wasn't a case of too many cooks in the kitchen, now that would be a real shame.

 

[DaveyNY]

Well I just hope it wasn't a case of too many cooks in the kitchen, now that would be a real shame.

Not only were there too many cooks, but they were all preparing a different dish in the same pot !!

Sheesh!

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I don't normally mind some Klingon dialogue but there was so much of it and listening to the actors trying to deliver their lines through all that unnecessary facial prosthetics was just painful, not the actors faults at all though.

I fast forwarded through most of it.

Honestly, the Klingon Dialogue doesn't bother me. I grew up watching RAW / SUB Anime and having a different foreign language subbed doesn't really bother me. In fact it enhances the scenes for me.

 

[Gonzo]

Honestly, the Klingon Dialogue doesn't bother me. I grew up watching RAW / SUB Anime and having a different foreign language subbed doesn't really bother me. In fact it enhances the scenes for me.

I felt sorry for the actors the most, I never had a problem with the Klingon spoken in the TNG era, it just looked like they were really struggling with the prosthetics.

 

[Tuskin38]

I felt sorry for the actors the most, I never had a problem with the Klingon spoken in the TNG era, it just looked like they were really struggling with the prosthetics.

I don’t think they were struggling. It certainly didn’t look like it to me, I don’t recall any of the actors bringing it up.

And when Voq/Tyler spoke Klingon without the makeup he sounded exactly the same. So I don’t think it was the makeup making them mumble.

 

[Gonzo]

I don’t think they were struggling. It certainly didn’t look like it to me, I don’t recall any of the actors bringing it up.

And when Voq/Tyler spoke Klingon without the makeup he sounded exactly the same. So I don’t think it was the makeup making them mumble.

Possibly, it must be said that the language is not easy to speak anyway and I just felt the delivery was a bit wooden due to lack of expression, which I consider to be the fault of the prosthetics.

It just came across badly in comparison to the Klingon we get in TNG and later which was delivered with such gusto by the actors who play Martok and Worf.

 

[SpocksOddSocks]

I just felt the delivery was a bit wooden due to lack of expression, which I consider to be the fault of the prosthetics.

Now, it's a while since I've read the preface sections of the Klingon dictionary so I might be missremembering. But I seem to recall that many stresses used in Klingon are meant to be actual differences in meaning to what the same sound might be in a different stress... in a similar fashion to Chinese. As such, western views of what is emotive speech shouldn't really cross over into Klingon like that. To some degree, I think the speech in discovery might be closer to the ideal that Marc Okrand imagined whist developing it.

Though to be fair, we seem to be getting off topic now. Sorry for my part in that.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

It just came across badly in comparison to the Klingon we get in TNG and later which was delivered with such gusto by the actors who play Martok and Worf.

I think that statement speaks volumes about the caliber of actors that played Martok / Worf (JG Hertzler / Michael Dorn). Especially compared to the ones who are delivering the lines now.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Now, it's a while since I've read the preface sections of the Klingon dictionary so I might be missremembering. But I seem to recall that many stresses used in Klingon are meant to be actual differences in meaning to what the same sound might be in a different stress... in a similar fashion to Chinese. As such, western views of what is emotive speech shouldn't really cross over into Klingon like that. To some degree, I think the speech in discovery might be closer to the ideal that Marc Okrand imagined whist developing it.

That would explain why Klingon feels familiar in a weird way for me. As a natural mandarin speaker, the emotive portion for every word can vary the meaning of each word drastically by 4-5 sounds per word, no wonder why the Universal Translator screws up when the sound differences are so similar. For us Humans, it's easier to figure out.

 

[lawman]

(Yes, I'm back on my bullshit about hull markings. Nobody cares but me, but I do care.) ... Also, wow, dig that old-style "It's TV, no one will be able to tell" texture mapping.

You're not the only one. Details matter! Heck, given how one of the main arguments for "updating" ship designs is the more sophisticated detailing available with current FX tech, you'd think they would matter more than ever.

John Eaves has said he designed 20+ (maybe it was 30) Federation ships for the show. ... I don't see how any of the Fedeation designs look 'rushed' or 'uninspired'.

De gustibus, I guess. I think that's way too many ships, and almost all of them looked rushed and/or uninspired. For instance, one of the interesting things to me about the Eaglemoss poster shown upthread is that while many of the Starfleet ships look halfway decent (and very similar) from above, the Enterprise is literally the only one that looks good in profile. From the side, the others just look like squashed, indistinct shapes.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

I don’t think they were struggling. It certainly didn’t look like it to me, I don’t recall any of the actors bringing it up.

And when Voq/Tyler spoke Klingon without the makeup he sounded exactly the same. So I don’t think it was the makeup making them mumble.

It didn't look like they were struggling because the Klingon actors were professionals. Kenneth Mitchell mentioned that working in the Klingon prosthetics was very hard work and not a nice experience. It was so hot in the prosthetics that the klingon cast basically turned into puddles of sweat. They had to constantly keep taking in fluids because of the risk of dehydration.

 

[Mytran]

Pretty much the same as anyone who works in prosthetics then. How did they think Doug Jones felt, who was encased in that stuff ALL the time?

Robert Llewellyn (Kryten from Red Dwarf) describes the process at length in his book "The Man In The Rubber Mask" along with a raft of amusing anecdotes from the series. And that was in the days of LATEX masks, not silicone!

 

[F. King Daniel]

Possibly, it must be said that the language is not easy to speak anyway and I just felt the delivery was a bit wooden due to lack of expression, which I consider to be the fault of the prosthetics.

It just came across badly in comparison to the Klingon we get in TNG and later which was delivered with such gusto by the actors who play Martok and Worf.

I was never a fan of the way TNG-era Klingons spoke the language. There was something overly theatrical about it, like they're winking at the audience and saying "and now here's our funnyspeak"

The Klingon in DSC reminds me more of the way they talk in The Motion Picture.

 

[NeoStar9]

I felt sorry for the actors the most, I never had a problem with the Klingon spoken in the TNG era, it just looked like they were really struggling with the prosthetics.

I never got the impression they were struggling. They made a point of saying before the show came out and after they wanted them to speak the language correctly, That was confirmed by the creators I believe of the language they were, more so then any other show and actors before. Doing that makes the language sound differently as it likely should. It should have its own flow to it and that's how I always took it when it was spoken. Also everyone speaks differently in general so why shouldn't the Klingons speak differently and at different speeds, etc?

 

[DaveyNY]

Perhaps we should continue this discussion to the actual KLINGON MAKEUP thread?

https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/klingons-appearance-history-repeats-itself.294279/

Instead of hijacking the SHIP SIZE one.

 

[Mytran]

Did you ever notice that NONE of the crew quarters had windows? Neither did the rec rooms, meeting rooms, etc... In fact, unless I'm mistake, the only time we see windows on the Enterprise is in the shuttle bay (Conscience of the King).

The crew quarters set actually featured two windows, one in each bay. They are on the rear wall and feature in a couple of early episodes (Mudd's Women is the best, seen when Mudd comes to Kirk's cabin). They do not feature starfields though and were sensibly covered up later on because their location is a bit nonsensical. They do appear on the setplans though:

To wind back the debate to last week for a moment, in doing my Production Order rewatch I've discovered that both Enemy Within and Man Trap feature really good shots of the later obscured crew quarters windows. Here are the best ones:

(the last one shows off the "glass" quite nicely)


And here is an example of a covered up window:

 

[DaveyNY]

Interesting how most of them are at a height in the wall designed for looking out when one is sitting.
I never realized that before.

 

[F. King Daniel]

To wind back the debate to last week for a moment, in doing my Production Order rewatch I've discovered that both Enemy Within and Man Trap feature really good shots of the later obscured crew quarters windows. Here are the best ones:

(the last one shows off the "glass" quite nicely)


And here is an example of a covered up window:

I never thought they were supposed to be windows, just shelves recessed into the walls.