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Kathleen Kennedy Damaging Star Wars....?
- Thread starter Kane_Steel
- Start date
To me, what happened with Luke toward the end of TLJ showed how being a truly great Jedi is really so much more about the spiritual dimension of "The Force," rather than mere prowess in mundane physical combat. The prequel trilogy already gave us plenty of Jedi characters being great at battle. It was time to rise above all that.
Kor
I thought it interesting and well played. Luke never came across as someone sure of himself. A massive backfire like the confrontation with Ben Solo could have easily shaken his belief in himself.
How did Luke not get to look like a Great Jedi? He blew up the first Death Star made Darth Vadar find the good within him and at the end he stood up to the bad guys as a Force ghost like we have never seen before. Granted we didn't see him get to have any lightsaber duels where he gets to do a bunch of back flips but he did a great deal.
Jason
Jason
I think Vader was more a victim of his own emotions than anything Luke did.
Why try? They are setting themselves up for failure.
He defeated Kylo Ren from across the galaxy without physically touching him, which inspired both the Resistance and the entire galaxy to not give up and keep going. He probably did a greater good through that than any Jedi before him. Because even during the old Republic, there was corruption throughout the galaxy. The Empire and the New Republic did nothing to stop it, now that might happen because of Luke and his last student Rey.
Also say what you want about that movie, but Luke actually got an arc. He goes from rejecting the Force out of despair and condemning the legend of Luke Skywalker, but he realizes that he can help so many by becoming that legend, one that the galaxy truly needs right now.
Plus, it wrapped up his greater arc that started in Empire.
Empire:
Yoda: No Luke! Don’t run off and do the first stupid emotional thing that comes to your dumb-but-pretty head.
Luke: *is already gone*
Yoda: Well, at least there a back up twin.
ROTJ:
Luke: I’m back to complete the unfinished business from ESB!
Yoda: *now has sequelitis dementia* What unfinished business? Just go kill Vader and The Emperor, and you should be fine.
-5 minutes later-
Emperor and Vader: *stomps all over Luke’s emotional buttons.*
Luke: *Falls for it. Nearly turns evil, and comes within a hairs breadth of being reduced to sticky paste. Again.*
TLJ:
Yoda: Stop being a slave to your own fucking emotional angst Luke!
Luke: But...
Luke:...
Luke:...
Luke:...Oh.
Luke: Oh no.
Yoda: Don’t worry Luke. The audience loves a slow thinker.
Empire:
Yoda: No Luke! Don’t run off and do the first stupid emotional thing that comes to your dumb-but-pretty head.
Luke: *is already gone*
Yoda: Well, at least there a back up twin.
ROTJ:
Luke: I’m back to complete the unfinished business from ESB!
Yoda: *now has sequelitis dementia* What unfinished business? Just go kill Vader and The Emperor, and you should be fine.
-5 minutes later-
Emperor and Vader: *stomps all over Luke’s emotional buttons.*
Luke: *Falls for it. Nearly turns evil, and comes within a hairs breadth of being reduced to sticky paste. Again.*
TLJ:
Yoda: Stop being a slave to your own fucking emotional angst Luke!
Luke: But...
Luke:...
Luke:...
Luke:...Oh.
Luke: Oh no.
Yoda: Don’t worry Luke. The audience loves a slow thinker.
I'm not even sure Luke really died, it felt more like he transcended his physical form and joined the Force instead of having to die.
It did seem more like what happened to Obi-Wan (gone before Vader even struck him), than Yoda (dies, then disappears.)
Gotta wonder if that disparity ever caused some fanboy aneurisms back in the day. Especially when you throw in that we also see Anakin die and then become a ghost, but it’s never even hinted that his corpse vanishes at all.
Oh, who am I kidding? The fact the EU devoted energy into ‘explaining’ it all, tells me that there was some shirt rending.
Gotta wonder if that disparity ever caused some fanboy aneurisms back in the day. Especially when you throw in that we also see Anakin die and then become a ghost, but it’s never even hinted that his corpse vanishes at all.
Oh, who am I kidding? The fact the EU devoted energy into ‘explaining’ it all, tells me that there was some shirt rending.
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He probably will. He practically foreshadowed it when he told Kylo that he'd see him around.
We need to be careful about the links between fantasy violence and real world violence. That's why I don't keep any loaded Infinity Gauntlets in the house.
But considering that we know that all of those people have got to come back in the sequel, this may have unintended layers to it.
Not quite the same thing. The DCEU was built on a shaky foundation to begin with, considering how divisive Man of Steel was. And if they were going to course correct, then they should have done it before they started principal photography on Justice League, not trying to reinvent the whole tone of the movie in post.
Meanwhile, Star Wars is really only having problems behind the scenes. Despite all of the reshoots, Rogue One and Solo are both solid, coherent, enjoyable films. I have theories as to why Solo has underperformed but I view it as a creative success. The problem has more to do with the reshoots driving the films way over budget, which can't be good for Disney's margins.
I don't think that Kennedy will be fired in the near future. Certainly not before the release of Episode IX. But I wouldn't be surprised if Disney didn't bring someone else in to look over her shoulder for the next few spinoff movies to make sure that they don't get so out of control that they need to be 80% reshot again.
I think, if Lucas still owned Lucasfilm, Lucas himself would have kept a much closer eye on the directors and Kennedy would be more of a facilitator middleman. Also, The Force Awakens wouldn't have worked so hard to convince us that it really is Star Wars since Star Wars would still just be whatever Lucas says it is.
Which is going to attract a very different crowd anyway since it's not an action movie. And, frankly, since Marvel isn't doing a movie this fall anyway, it makes it all the more perplexing that they didn't move Solo.
Try not! Do or do not. There is no try.
I'm sure he will. I expect him to be haunting all up in Kylo Ren's face as if he's Banquo's ghost!
How are the two things different? I got to admit I don't fully understand the nature of the Force. If someone is a Force ghost is that them living in some Heaven like place or does it mean they are still part of the living universe only they have basically transformed into something like pure energy.
Jason
Unfortunately, that doesn't mean that Hamill will come back to make new scenes, but I really, really hope he does. Things can happen in-story and happen off screen or with stock footage, outtakes, CGI, etc.
It all depends on whether Hamill gets punished for speaking his mind.
Of course, for a franchise already in hot water with the fans, leaving him out of IX entirely would be the stupidest thing they could do.
Unfortunately, they have an established track record of sometimes doing the stupidest possible thing.
Of course, for a franchise already in hot water with the fans, leaving him out of IX entirely would be the stupidest thing they could do.
Unfortunately, they have an established track record of sometimes doing the stupidest possible thing.
I think ESB tops SW, but only in that it follows/ builds on SW and is a better movie in terms of pacing, storytelling, fx, etc. However, without SW it would have existed in a vacuum. You needed the backstory of SW for ESB to work the way it did, so there is that dependent aspect to it.
SW was always the clear win for me. It’s just a fun ride, and is probably the perfect pulp adventure movie.
And I love the characters, and the SFX are impressive, and humour still works, and the music is great, and all the emotional beats still hit the right spot ever time, and...
ESB (alongside AOTC) is probably the movie I rewatch the least. Not because of any technical flaw, but purely because it just leaves me emotionally cold. R1 ended up being similar.
There are technical issues, but I’m not in enough denial to forget that I’ve loved movies that are technically so much worse.
Which is also part of the reason why I don’t make a habit of calling for the heads of artists that disappoint me. This whole thing is a two way street, personal disappointment isn’t that big of a deal, and there’s always someone who will have enjoyed it. If they get a thousand sequels, then more power to them I suppose. It’s not like I would be forced to watch them.
And I love the characters, and the SFX are impressive, and humour still works, and the music is great, and all the emotional beats still hit the right spot ever time, and...
ESB (alongside AOTC) is probably the movie I rewatch the least. Not because of any technical flaw, but purely because it just leaves me emotionally cold. R1 ended up being similar.
There are technical issues, but I’m not in enough denial to forget that I’ve loved movies that are technically so much worse.
Which is also part of the reason why I don’t make a habit of calling for the heads of artists that disappoint me. This whole thing is a two way street, personal disappointment isn’t that big of a deal, and there’s always someone who will have enjoyed it. If they get a thousand sequels, then more power to them I suppose. It’s not like I would be forced to watch them.
If nothing else, this sums it up perfectly my feelings. I have yet to hear a rationale explanation as to how Star Wars was "ruined" and I've heard several long before the ST showed up. Was the PT how I would have done it? No, not by a long shot. Do I have to watch them? Also, no.
Same rules apply to the ST. I don't have watch them, enjoy them or even engaged them. They are not so important to my life or goals that I am somehow damaged because Luke didn't end up being the perfect cipher for my expectations, or if TFA had callbacks to ANH (never minding the subtext of the overall film that really doesn't work without the OT. That's an entirely different discussion).
Ultimately, SW is entertainment. If it stops entertaining me, then I don't care if someone is "damaging" it (whatever that means) because I've stopped engaging because it isn't entertaining.
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