Warner bros announce superhero films through 2020

[The Borgified Corpse]

They probably should have just done The Killing Joke as a short film and not bothered with the earlier filler.

So apparently Aquaman is opening up around the same time as Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse, Transformers: Bumblebee, Mortal Engines, and Mary Poppins Returns. There definitely isn't room for all those films to succeed. Though another flop for the DCEU after JL can't be good.

Cheering for Spider-man and Bumblebee though.

Bumblebee looks less stupid than the previous Transformers movies but I think the Michael Bay movies have kinda poisoned that well for now. Similarly, Aquaman may struggle a bit to wash away the Justice League stink.
I think Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse will do OK but I don't think it will be anywhere near what its live-action counterparts have done. Still, I'm pulling for it if only so we can get a Spider-Gwen follow-up.
I'm not sure about Mortal Engines. The trailer keeps switching between looking cool and ridiculous. And I'm not sure how much I'd bank on an adaptation of a YA series that I haven't even peripherally heard of prior to this (and I was working at a bookstore at the time the 3rd & 4th novels came out, apparently).
I think Mary Poppins Returns will be the big box office juggernaut for the latter half of the year. It's got the triple threat of name recognition, Disney branding, and being the rare studio tent-pole that isn't an action movie.

 

[Turtletrekker]

The animated movie.

I actually watched that for the first time recently, and the first half hour is not just problematic in the way it portrays Barbara Gordon, it also simply sucked. It had nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the rest of the movie. With the Joker being the big star of the movie, it's mind-boggling that he isn't even mentioned until a third of the movie is over. I actually re-wrote a better first act in my head while I was watching the actual first act.

They probably should have just done The Killing Joke as a short film and not bothered with the earlier filler.

Agreed. However onnce all of that nonsense was in the rearview and it actually became an adaptation of The Killing Joke, it became a much movie, although something was lost in the translation for me.

 

[Christopher]

I actually watched that for the first time recently, and the first half hour is not just problematic in the way it portrays Barbara Gordon, it also simply sucked. It had nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the rest of the movie. With the Joker being the big star of the movie, it's mind-boggling that he isn't even mentioned until a third of the movie is over. I actually re-wrote a better first act in my head while I was watching the actual first act.

I felt that the prologue should've been about Batgirl capturing the Joker. That way, what happens to her after his subsequent escape is the Joker taking revenge on her, so it gives her some actual agency in the story rather than reducing her to a mere prop in a story about men.

I still haven't seen the TKJ movie. I've wondered if I should just fast-forward to the part where they adapt the comic, but if I got the DVD from the library, I'd probably feel obligated to watch the whole thing out of completism and morbid curiosity.

 

[The Realist]

I actually rather liked the Batgirl mini-movie that opened the animated Killing Joke -- which, as nearly as I've been able to ascertain, renders me a minority of precisely one.

 

[Kane_Steel]

I think Mary Poppins Return will be the big winner. Aquaman and Bumblebee will tie for second place.

Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse will do okay in third place.

I have no confidence in "Mortal Engines" From the trailer it looks very cliche.

There's also James Cameron and Robert Rodriguez's Alita Battle Angel opening around the same time.


Mary Poppins will definitely destroy the competition.

Aquaman has the most the lose though. It's budget is probably in the 200M+ range, plus another 150-200M on marketing.

Spider-Man may have the most to gain, because it looks like a lower budget animated feature... yet it is riding the wave of Spider-Man popularity, and the cultural significance of a Black superhero.

Bumblebee may be a surprise winner as well, but that depends on it's budget. It isn't going to perform has big as the Bayformer films in their heyday.

You're right that Mortal Engines will likely get lost in the shuffle.

There's bound to be some shifts in the December release schedule soon, but there's gonna be a few winners and a lot of losers with all these films so close together.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

I felt that the prologue should've been about Batgirl capturing the Joker. That way, what happens to her after his subsequent escape is the Joker taking revenge on her, so it gives her some actual agency in the story rather than reducing her to a mere prop in a story about men.

I would have had both Batman and Batgirl go up against the Joker in the first act, and the Joker almost kills Batman, but he's saved by Batgirl who risks her life doing so. Gordon would have seen this, and made a comment about being glad his daughter didn't do such things, as it would probably kill him (he might have recently had a heart attack, to give the comment more weight). Barbara overhears this, and it ads to her own realization of how risky her activities as Batgirl are after coming so close to death. She tells Batman that she'd take some time off to think about this. And this is what makes Batman want to have his talk with the Joker*. The fact that Barbara would be shot down in her private life by a Joker who doesn't know she's Batgirl would bring the realization that danger is part of all life.

And I would not have the hopeful scene at the end hinting at Barbara becoming Oracle. Barbara should be a victim in this story, as all the characters are, really. TLJ is a tragedy, and the problem with the original story was not that Barbara was victimized, but that it really was told as the tragedy of Gordon, Batman and the Joker, but not really her own.

*That's another thing that bugged me about the movie we got. The event that triggers Batman's need to talk to the Joker in the movie was finding victims the Joker killed two years ago, when last the Joker was outside of Arkham. But, the point Batman wants to make is how the two of them go up against each other all the time, and it eventually leading towards the death of one of them. But, if the Joker has been in Arkham for two years, that doesn't make a lot of sense. It's also quite the coincidence that those victims were found just when the Joker escaped again.

I still haven't seen the TKJ movie. I've wondered if I should just fast-forward to the part where they adapt the comic, but if I got the DVD from the library, I'd probably feel obligated to watch the whole thing out of completism and morbid curiosity.

It's not totally unwatchable, so just to form your own opinion, I'd recommend giving it a try. It's only half an hour. But on repeat viewings, I'll probably skip ahead to Batman's visit to Arkham.

 

[Christopher]

I would have had both Batman and Batgirl go up against the Joker in the first act, and the Joker almost kills Batman, but he's saved by Batgirl who risks her life doing so. Gordon would have seen this, and made a comment about being glad his daughter didn't do such things, as it would probably kill him (he might have recently had a heart attack, to give the comment more weight). Barbara overhears this, and it ads to her own realization of how risky her activities as Batgirl are after coming so close to death. She tells Batman that she'd take some time off to think about this. And this is what makes Batman want to have his talk with the Joker*. The fact that Barbara would be shot down in her private life by a Joker who doesn't know she's Batgirl would bring the realization that danger is part of all life.

Maybe a bit overcomplicated. Sure, in the larger comics continuity, Barbara was retired at the time, but there's nothing within TKJ itself that indicates that. There's no reason an adaptation couldn't have had her still be active as Batgirl, and it would make for a more straightforward narrative without the whole retirement angle.

Besides, having Gordon say that in Batgirl's hearing would be too on the nose.

And I would not have the hopeful scene at the end hinting at Barbara becoming Oracle. Barbara should be a victim in this story, as all the characters are, really. TLJ is a tragedy, and the problem with the original story was not that Barbara was victimized, but that it really was told as the tragedy of Gordon, Batman and the Joker, but not really her own.

I can't agree with that at all. Defining someone purely as a "victim" is disempowering. Yes, the Joker victimized Gordon and Batman, but he didn't break them. They weren't defeated. They resisted his attempt to destroy them and proved stronger than he was, overcoming what he did to them. They survived what he did. It would be playing right into the original story's misogyny to have Barbara fail to do the same. The story would need to show her as a survivor of the event, not just a "victim" of it. To give her agency, the story would need to address the consequences of the event on her life and how she would adjust and move on.

Besides, it's demeaning and ableist to see paraplegia merely as a "tragedy," as if it's some incurable horror or the end of someone's life. It's an adaptation. It's a traumatic and life-changing event, but one that can be adjusted to and incorporated into one's life. When Barbara was Oracle, she became a powerful and rare example of positive representation for people with disabilities, because her disability wasn't reduced to a mere "tragedy" but was simply part of her identity, her life. Good grief, the entire Batman saga is about how people cope positively with tragic events. Bruce and Dick turned the murders of their parents into a catalyst for becoming heroes and protectors. For a Bat-family character, tragedy should be a motivator, not a defeat.

 

[Morpheus 02]

Wow..i am excited about that we went back to talking about DC FU movies for a minute.

I don't think SPiderMan will take THAT much away from Aquaman...true it will be a week earlier, and positive buzz will drive sales... but i think a number of people will initially dismiss it as "just a cartoon" while Game of Thrones and STargate fans (and Fast & Furious) will drive a bit for Aquaman.

Mary Poppins is coming out on Christmas, so a bit of a delay. I think Aquaman will surprise that first week, while Mary Poppins will start popping the way Jumanji did in January.

Not sure of Mortal ENgines or Battle ANgel will bring in people they way something that has already been tasted (Aquaman via Justice League) will be. looking at the schedule, i guess January - March is pretty full too, as is November. I guess we will see.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

Maybe a bit overcomplicated. Sure, in the larger comics continuity, Barbara was retired at the time, but there's nothing within TKJ itself that indicates that. There's no reason an adaptation couldn't have had her still be active as Batgirl, and it would make for a more straightforward narrative without the whole retirement angle.

Besides, having Gordon say that in Batgirl's hearing would be too on the nose.

It's supposed to fill half an hour, so I don't actually think it's overcomplicated. It also ads layers to what happens in the actual adaptation of the comic in the second and third act.
True, the retirement angle is not strictly necessary, but it works well the way I came up with it.

As to Batgirl overhearing Gordon's comment, I did say I came up with it while I was sitting through the actual first act, so if I'd actually get into it, I'd most definitely refine that. In any event, it's way better than the first act we actually got, and the fact that I, a hobby writer at best, came up with in the actual run-time of the first act is testament to what a bad job Brian Azzerallo did (or how much he had his head up his ass, whichever you prefer).

I can't agree with that at all. Defining someone purely as a "victim" is disempowering. Yes, the Joker victimized Gordon and Batman, but he didn't break them. They weren't defeated. They resisted his attempt to destroy them and proved stronger than he was, overcoming what he did to them. They survived what he did. It would be playing right into the original story's misogyny to have Barbara fail to do the same. The story would need to show her as a survivor of the event, not just a "victim" of it. To give her agency, the story would need to address the consequences of the event on her life and how she would adjust and move on.

Besides, it's demeaning and ableist to see paraplegia merely as a "tragedy," as if it's some incurable horror or the end of someone's life. It's an adaptation. It's a traumatic and life-changing event, but one that can be adjusted to and incorporated into one's life. When Barbara was Oracle, she became a powerful and rare example of positive representation for people with disabilities, because her disability wasn't reduced to a mere "tragedy" but was simply part of her identity, her life. Good grief, the entire Batman saga is about how people cope positively with tragic events. Bruce and Dick turned the murders of their parents into a catalyst for becoming heroes and protectors. For a Bat-family character, tragedy should be a motivator, not a defeat.

Look, I'm as happy as the next fan that they turned Babs into Oracle in the comics. As a child of the 90s, I even like Oracle-Babs better than Batgirl-Babs. But this particular story is very much a tragedy, and the only way to expand Barbara's character without taking away from the spirit of the story as a tragedy, is to give more focus on her own tragedy within the story. Thus, driving home the idea that somebody who spends so much time in dangerous situations as Batgirl could be shot down in her private life without a direct connection to her vigilante activities.

And the story is a tragedy, for all characters involved, including Batman and the Joker. True, Batman beats the Joker without resorting to murder, but when he offers the Joker his help, he replies by telling the joke about the two escaping asylum inmates, which drives home the notion that both of them are truly trapped in that vicious cycle that will only end when one of them kills the other. That's their tragedy.

 

[Christopher]

It's supposed to fill half an hour, so I don't actually think it's overcomplicated.

In my experience, making a story longer is rarely a problem. Rather, first drafts have a way of being too long and having too much material, and so it's important to streamline and tighten, to focus on what's relevant.

And when it comes to action movies, particularly in animation, a lot of that time is going to be taken up with action and visuals, so it's generally best to keep the plotting efficient.

Look, I'm as happy as the next fan that they turned Babs into Oracle in the comics. As a child of the 90s, I even like Oracle-Babs better than Batgirl-Babs. But this particular story is very much a tragedy, and the only way to expand Barbara's character without taking away from the spirit of the story as a tragedy, is to give more focus on her own tragedy within the story.

I've already explained why I disagree. Tragedy means that the heroes lose, that they fail. It's not a tragedy for Batman and Gordon, because the Joker doesn't break them; they stay true to their values and thereby prevail in the end. So it's a double standard if Barbara doesn't prevail, if she's portrayed purely as a victim and doesn't transcend the Joker's evil in the same way that Batman and Gordon do. It's just more of the same powerlessness that Moore and Bolland inflicted on her.

And the story is a tragedy, for all characters involved, including Batman and the Joker. True, Batman beats the Joker without resorting to murder, but when he offers the Joker his help, he replies by telling the joke about the two escaping asylum inmates, which drives home the notion that both of them are truly trapped in that vicious cycle that will only end when one of them kills the other. That's their tragedy.

But at the same time, the Joker gives Batman that one moment of understanding, that brief truce where, for just one moment, they weren't mortal enemies and were able to share in a moment of genuine laughter. So there's hope there as well. It's totally missing the point to see that ending as predicting only a dark future. It's intentionally ambiguous. That's the whole thing that makes it work.

 

[dahj]

Neat fanart poster for the WW sequel:

(source)

 

[Set Harth]

Is there any chance the villain of that film won't totally suck?

 

[Anwar]

Is there any chance the villain of that film won't totally suck?

It's going to be Kristin Wiig as a Catwoman.

 

[crookeddy]

It's going to be Kristin Wiig as a Catwoman.

A Cheetah even.

 

[Anwar]

I get the feeling that WW2 will essentially just show people that WW was either a flash-in-the-pan or they'll realize it was a fairly standard film to begin with and it was enjoyed for being the first decent DCEU film rather than anything else.

 

[The Realist]

^ And I get the feeling that (as Harlan Ellison used to say) you're stuffed full of wild blueberry muffins.

There wasn't any trick or illusion to Wonder Woman's popularity and success. It's a terrific movie and a high-water mark for the entire superhero film genre, full stop.

 

[crookeddy]

^ And I get the feeling that (as Harlan Ellison used to say) you're stuffed full of wild blueberry muffins.

There wasn't any trick or illusion to Wonder Woman's popularity and success. It's a terrific movie and a high-water mark for the entire superhero film genre, full stop.

Nah, it was 100% flash in the pan just like Black Panther. Two mediocre movies that came out at just the right time.

 

[Kor]

To me, Suicide Squad has been the most entertaining DCEU movie so far, and I am looking forward to seeing more of these characters. I wasn't big on Leto's Joker, though.

Kor

 

[dahj]

To me, Suicide Squad has been the most entertaining DCEU movie so far, and I am looking forward to seeing more of these characters.

They just announced new writers for the sequel:
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/amp/heat-vision/suicide-squad-2-gets-new-writers-sequel-1118407

 

[The Realist]

Nah, it was 100% flash in the pan just like Black Panther. Two mediocre movies that came out at just the right time.