Spoilers Justice League - Grading and Discussion

[The Realist]

It's just that WB wants people to believe that this was a Zack Snyder movie, slightly changed by Joss Whedon, so as to not anger the 5 Zack Snyder fans left.

I think their concern was more the press and the general public, and trying to avoid the stink that would attach to frantically retooling the movie at the 11.5th hour -- the effects of which were nonetheless obvious when the Frankensteinian final product hit theater screens.

 

[crookeddy]

I think their concern was more the press and the general public, and trying to avoid the stink that would attach to frantically retooling the movie at the 11.5th hour -- the effects of which were nonetheless obvious when the Frankensteinian final product hit theater screens.

Except that you only think the movie ended up this way because you know what happened behind the scenes. The movie itself ended up perfectly coherent and enjoyable, though rather simple.

 

[EnderAKH]

I'll be honest, after finally watching it, I enjoyed it FAR more than I was expecting to, and more than either Man of Steel or Batman v Superman.

 

[Ovation]

No need to defend Whedon. He didn't do anything unethical. It's just that WB wants people to believe that this was a Zack Snyder movie, slightly changed by Joss Whedon, so as to not anger the 5 Zack Snyder fans left.

6. There are 6 of us.

 

[The Realist]

Except that you only think the movie ended up this way because you know what happened behind the scenes. The movie itself ended up perfectly coherent and enjoyable, though rather simple.

You're undoubtedly right that such knowledge informs audience perceptions of the movie. But even without it, it would be obvious to anyone who's seen MoS and BvS that this is not (or no longer is) a Zack Snyder film, despite what the credits and studio damage control might claim.

 

[dahj]

6. There are 6 of us.

Unite the Seven!

 

[Ovation]

Unite the Seven!

I love it.

 

[crookeddy]

Unite the Seven!

A+ post, two internets to you.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Finally saw this yesterday and I have to say, though I went in with very low expectations, the movie still managed to disappoint me. The critics were 100% right on this one.

While it does improve some of the problems BvS had (less joyless, more coherent) it totally drops the ball on the characters. Ben Affleck's performance fell off a cliff in comparison to BvS and I officially no longer care to ever see him again. Miller, Momoa and Fisher were all extremely variable, ranging from decent to terrible depending on the scene. Cavill's performance was ruined by that idiot mustache and even Gal Gadot seemed to be struggling to maintain the same presence that seemed so effortless in her own movie.

But by far the biggest sin here is visual. Looking cool is the one thing these movies were undeniably good at in the past (for the most part) and yet JL is the ugliest, most cheapass looking blockbuster I've seen this decade. The CGI company seems to be blatantly incompetent, and yet their work is literally the basis for almost every scene. Steppenwolf may not be a terrible villain narratively speaking in comparison to various others that can be mentioned, but presentation wise? He's not just video game level cgi, he's unfinished video game cgi that was abandoned for being irredeemable (with terrible voice acting, to boot). The parademons are almost as bad. So is evil red and purple land. And Superman's face. And Cyborg's entire body. (And, while unrelated to the cgi, Flash's costume is horrible, too, and while Batman's may look cool in stills it still looks like shit in action shots - we should not have to see the Michael Keaton shoulder turn in a 2017 Batman movie.) Even many of the sets looked cheap and unconvincing. Parts of those Gotham City scenes felt like they belonged in Batman Returns, rather than Justice League.

And for an action movie spectacle, it had no spectacle or action worth mentioning. None of the fights were the least bit fun. The only thing even mildly entertaining was Superman vs the Flash, which lasted 20 seconds and really made no sense in the context of the film anyway. You know it's bad when your 300 million dollar Justice league movie can't even match the fight scenes in Suicide Squad - which stars mostly normal people fighting mostly power rangers puddy rejects.

Overall, I give it a D+, only because Gadot at least managed to lift most of her scenes to the level of being sort of decent and I very occassionally laughed at Flash or Cyborg.

Also - was I the only person who noticed that Henry Cavill's little 'do you bleed' speech literally didn't sound like Henry Cavill at all? I don't know if he was just trying to do a super angry voice there and it just didn't work or if there was some kind of retouching going on, but it just felt kind of bizarre.

 

[Anwar]

Cyborg is just a bad choice for extended live action in the first place, if you're using CGI...half his face is real and half is always CGI meaning the effect will always looks bizarre. They'd have been better off using practical FX for him or using another character.

 

[DigificWriter]

If WB were as dissatisfied with Snyder as certain groups of people claim, they could have fired him outright at any point during the film's production save for the final month or so of shooting.

The very fact that they didn't is in itself a death knell to the idea that WB was in fact dissatisfied with him, but certain people clearly dont actually care about what is factual and would rather cling to whatever narrative best lines up with their own opinions.

 

[crookeddy]

If WB were as dissatisfied with Snyder as certain groups of people claim, they could have fired him outright at any point during the film's production save for the final month or so of shooting.

The very fact that they didn't is in itself a death knell to the idea that WB was in fact dissatisfied with him, but certain people clearly dont actually care about what is factual and would rather cling to whatever narrative best lines up with their own opinions.

Just like Kathleen Kennedy could have fired the solo directors at any time, but waited until the very end.

 

[Noname Given]

If WB were as dissatisfied with Snyder as certain groups of people claim, they could have fired him outright at any point during the film's production save for the final month or so of shooting.

The very fact that they didn't is in itself a death knell to the idea that WB was in fact dissatisfied with him, but certain people clearly dont actually care about what is factual and would rather cling to whatever narrative best lines up with their own opinions.

As always, depends on how their contract is written. Yes, they can be removed; but it may COST the studio a lot, and they may figure it's not worth it in the end. (IE - A film's Box Office is always uncertain and changes/reshoots drive up a budget on any circumstance; so they always weigh the pros/cons.)

 

[DigificWriter]

Because of the way DGA rules work, a studio can cut ties with a director at any point up until said director has completed 90% of Principal Photography and not be beholden to or tied to said director in any way, monetarily or otherwise.

If Warner Bros. were as dissatisfied with Snyder as is claimed, it would have been in their best interests to cut ties with him before DGA rules tied him to them both creatively and monetarily, and it speaks volumes that they didn't do so.

 

[The Realist]

Oooooh, you know I love it when you talk about DGA rules. What are you wearing?

 

[Morpheus 02]

They maybe didn't realize how bad it was until that 90% was done...or also tryign to avoid as much bad press as possible...Batman vs. Superman did NOT excite people for Justice League, though Wonder WOman's appearance definitely got people excited about HER movie...

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

Seriously. It was soulless corporate product, featuring the fifth gravelly-voiced revenge-seeking villain in a big-ass ship in a row (yes, the swarm of little ships count as one "big-ass ship)

While I like Star Trek Beyond more than you do, I agree with you on this point. Krall was the worst thing about the movie and this trend of revenge obsessed villains needs to stop!

In this crew, Batman is like a rich amateur who produces a movie and then insists on being in it, and no one can tell him no because he has the money.

So Batman is Tommy Wiseau? "Oh, hai, Superman. How's your sex life?"

Even knowing what happened behind the scenes, I don't really see Justice League as a patchwork movie. However, it's clearly a movie made with a very different artistic intention from what was driving Man of Steel and Batman v Superman. So it doesn't really feel like Snyder's movie but it also lacks the wit and references that define Whedon's movies. As a result, the movie seems to have no identity. Much like Solo (which is actually really good), I'd like to see a commentary track that just breaks down who shot which scenes.

Also, I haven't seen the movie since it left theatres but when I saw it being demoed on the TVs in Walmart, the FX looked a lot worse than I remember.

And I can't remember if this has been addressed in the thread before, but I thought that the reason why Superman died was because Doomsday impaled his torso with a giant bone spike. I didn't think that he had any super healing. (Why would he since he's generally incapable of being injured anyway?) So, shouldn't the giant hole in his torso still be a problem even if the Mother Box managed to reanimate his cells?

 

[Anwar]

He was apparently coming back to life in the end of BvS, so I think the idea was that the stored up Solar power was healing him or something (apparently all powered Kryptonians have that, and DD's adaptation power was supposed to be an amplified version of that)...but that got dropped in JL because him just coming back wasn't dramatic enough so they wanted the League to do it with Mother Box.

 

[Set Harth]

it also lacks the wit and references that define Whedon's movies.

Really? What about "something's definitely bleeding" and the Pet Sematary stuff?

 

[dahj]

Yeah, the dialogue was way too Whedony at times.