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"5 Reasons Kathleen Kennedy Needs To Step Down From Lucasfilm" By John Campea

I'm stating that Riann Johnson turned her into a Mary Sue. I don't believe she started out that way.
Many fans feel that way and many fans don't. I'm overstating nothing and I have nothing to be embarrassed about.
 
No, it happens over a few days, the fact that there was a several year gap in between some of those days just means we don't know what happened in the meantime. It's possible he did nothing whatsoever and just played board games with Chewbacca, he may have saved the galaxy hundreds of times over, we just don't know. It doesn't matter, however, because the achievements we do know about only occur over much the same time span as Rey's, are far more impressive and required less training, yet she is the character called out as being unrealistically powerful.

I mean honestly, yes there is an absence (now that EU is out the door) of evidence for or against what Luke did in the gaps of ANH-ESB-RoTJ.

But TFA and TLJ, and someone can correct me if I’m wrong, happened in the span of a few days; I believe it was confirmed by Rian or another higher up producer.

I am in now way trying to denigrate the character; I just feel it was a bit convenient in TFA she was good at *everything*:

- Mind trick? Can do it in my sleep
- lightsaber combat? Knights of who? I got this
- Piloting? I mean I’ve never left Jakku but I can fly a spaceship

You kind of get my point. I didn’t dislike Rey in TFA and saw her character potential, and I absolutely loved her in TLJ because they brought some balance and characteristics that anyone could empathize with: male or female. Who here hasn’t at least once in their life questioned their place, whether it be in their family, culture, faith, world etc? Who here hasn’t met someone or respected someone only to see their flaws yet do their best to find the good in them and motivate them to be a better person? Rey’s arc was great in TLJ and I couldn’t be more happier, especially because Daisy Ridley is such a cool person and actress? I look forward to her characters conclusion in 9.
 
I'm stating that Riann Johnson turned her into a Mary Sue. I don't believe she started out that way.
Many fans feel that way and many fans don't. I'm overstating nothing and I have nothing to be embarrassed about.

A tiny portion of fans feel that way strongly enough to comment very loudly in tones that drip sexism and with no clear explanation why she should be expected to conform to different standards than Luke
 
I mean honestly, yes there is an absence (now that EU is out the door) of evidence for or against what Luke did in the gaps of ANH-ESB-RoTJ.

But TFA and TLJ, and someone can correct me if I’m wrong, happened in the span of a few days; I believe it was confirmed by Rian or another higher up producer.

I am in now way trying to denigrate the character; I just feel it was a bit convenient in TFA she was good at *everything*:

- Mind trick? Can do it in my sleep
- lightsaber combat? Knights of who? I got this
- Piloting? I mean I’ve never left Jakku but I can fly a spaceship

You kind of get my point. I didn’t dislike Rey in TFA and saw her character potential, and I absolutely loved her in TLJ because they brought some balance and characteristics that anyone could empathize with: male or female. Who here hasn’t at least once in their life questioned their place, whether it be in their family, culture, faith, world etc? Who here hasn’t met someone or respected someone only to see their flaws yet do their best to find the good in them and motivate them to be a better person? Rey’s arc was great in TLJ and I couldn’t be more happier, especially because Daisy Ridley is such a cool person and actress? I look forward to her characters conclusion in 9.

Mind Trick - Luke used it after three days training, without all the difficulty Rey had, he did it proficiently
Lightsaber combat - defeated Vader after three days training, the guy the Knights of Ren's leader looked up to (incidentally, that wasn't the KoR in Snoke's throne room)
Piloting - Had never left Tatooine but could lead a squadron of elite pilots on a special mission and take out the Death Star single handed, as opposed to Rey simply being able to fire the gun

with less training than Rey.
 
Mind Trick - Luke used it after three days training
Lightsaber conbat - defeated Vader after three days training
Piloting - Had never left Tatooine but could lead a squadron of elite pilots on a special mission and take out the Death Star single handed

with less training than Rey.

1. When did Luke use a mind trick in ANH? The only one who did was Kenobi

2. He flew a sky hopper in canyons. But point taken. I guess Rey could have done so on Jakku? It’s an error on the script IMO to not maybe give a line in there sort of like Luke and Biggs conversation to at least show us she had piloting skills.

3. Luke didn’t face Vader until three years after he received his lightsaber. We no longer have any comic books or novels going for or against the notion that he used the lightsaber between ANH and ESB. I mean he probably did; it would hard to imagine he didn’t. And to be fair, Vader mopped the floor with him on Cloud City.

I guess the only thing we can agree on is regardless, Rey is a great addition to the saga, and my favorite character of the “new three”. Just wish she was presented a bit more human in TFA is all.

On a way off the beaten path note, I hope they give her a unique saber in 9, like Luke got. Maybe orange or silver? Some color we haven’t seen in the movies before
 
1) He used it in ROTJ, by which point he'd had three days worth of training, one with Obi Wan, two with Yoda
2) Yeah, but it's not hard to see she would have flown something, everyone in that environment would at some point
3) He faced him with three days training, it doesn't matter about the years in between, he didn't have anyone teaching him, he just had a few hours introductory session with Obi Wan to refer back to. He then defeated Vader, after a couple of days with Yoda.

It may be that we were simply less critical an audience in 1977, but the idea that Rey is somehow portrayed as being out of line with Luke in terms of accelerated learning is simply a non starter. On the contrary he outstrips her by a mile unless the new Marvel comics have wrote some new mentor in.

I'd love to see a black lightsaber myself
 
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I am in now way trying to denigrate the character; I just feel it was a bit convenient in TFA she was good at *everything*:

- Mind trick? Can do it in my sleep
- lightsaber combat? Knights of who? I got this
- Piloting? I mean I’ve never left Jakku but I can fly a spaceship

I walked away from the theatre thinking why does she need Luke? She has herself.
 
I wasn't aware MaRey Sue had any self doubts.
Oh, we're critiquing the implausibility of main characters by the use of belittling nicknames? How about that time when Fluke blew up the whole freaking Death Star by making a shot that everyone else thought was impossible the very first time he piloted a starfighter just a day or so after getting away from his uncle's moisture farm?
 
Mind Trick - Luke used it after three days training, without all the difficulty Rey had, he did it proficiently
Lightsaber combat - defeated Vader after three days training, the guy the Knights of Ren's leader looked up to (incidentally, that wasn't the KoR in Snoke's throne room)
Piloting - Had never left Tatooine but could lead a squadron of elite pilots on a special mission and take out the Death Star single handed, as opposed to Rey simply being able to fire the gun

with less training than Rey.
It’s important to remember that Luke grew up on a farm, raised by his uncle and aunt. Other than boredom, he seemed to live a fairly carefree life. Rey grew up having to defend herself and get by salvaging scrap. It makes sense that she’d be a capable fighter.
 
And why did Luke need Yoda?
Because he had cute ears. :vulcan:

I felt that Luke was more of a dreamer and he was kind of awkward at times (this is in reference to the end of Hope). He just didn't give me the 'perfect' hero feel. He needed Han and Leia. His connection to the Force was virtually a birthright but the wonderment of the character just rang less perfect.
 
I'm stating that Riann Johnson turned her into a Mary Sue. I don't believe she started out that way.
Many fans feel that way and many fans don't. I'm overstating nothing and I have nothing to be embarrassed about.

The bolded word is an overstatement. The percentage of "fanboys" who drag out the "Rey is a Mary Sue" thing amount to the equivalent of "a grain of sand in the desert", and yet you keep trying to exaggerate their numbers.
 
It’s important to remember that Luke grew up on a farm, raised by his uncle and aunt. Other than boredom, he seemed to live a fairly carefree life. Rey grew up having to defend herself and get by salvaging scrap. It makes sense that she’d be a capable fighter.
See I tend to agree here. Rey's survival at the beginning of her story reminds me ever so slightly of that Voyager episode - Gravity. Of Noss.
 
A tiny portion of fans feel that way strongly enough to comment very loudly in tones that drip sexism and with no clear explanation why she should be expected to conform to different standards than Luke

I asked you to stop with the sexist shit. I've already said ad nauseam that it's Johnson's crappy writing.
And quit acting like I invented Mary Sue, that's the term for it. If she were a he, I'd be calling him a Wesley Crusher or something.

The bolded word is an overstatement. The percentage of "fanboys" who drag out the "Rey is a Mary Sue" thing amount to the equivalent of "a grain of sand in the desert", and yet you keep trying to exaggerate their numbers.

I'm speaking for myself and have given no statistics from which to divine grains of sand from. The only fact I can support would be that statistically I cannot be the only who believes this.
I'm gonna have to leave you hanging here, I never learned how to debate hyperbole. I'm just happy I can pronounce it.
 
I'd love to see a black lightsaber myself

tumblr_mhahwabtIM1qg10guo1_500.gif
 
I asked you to stop with the sexist shit

Ask away, the fact remains you are being hypercritical of the Rey portrayal on grounds for which you are simultaneously willing to defend the Luke portrayal to the point of ridiculousness. The only definable difference here is gender.

I actually fed you a load of rope on purpose with the Luke thing and the clever response would have been to say something "Yeah, that was also a bit silly, both portrayals sit poorly with everything else we know about the Jedi, even at the time of ANH it was made clear Jedi were typically apprenticed over many years". If you'd have done that I'd have been totally wrong footed and would have happily ate humble pie.

What you actually did was take a short sighted view and fought the battle at the expense of the war (as I suspected you might). You made a string of points hopelessly questioning the counter criticisms which several people had aimed at the Luke portrayal, leaving yourself open to exactly what you have received, suggestions of sexism. You have done nothing to provide any solid case one portrayal is markedly different to the other in terms of the abilities or training required to achieve them, in fact you haven't even countered the point that the issues are even more pronounced in Luke's case than Rey's yet for some reason it is her who comes under fire for being a "Mary Sue".

Again, she's a girl.

I've already said ad nauseam that it's Johnson's crappy writing.

Define "crappy writing"

And quit acting like I invented Mary Sue, that's the term for it

No, not really, "Mary Sue" is a term for wish fulfilment on the part of the writer who essentially inserts an idealised version of themself into a story, as personified by the character (you guessed it) Mary Sue who was a love interest for Kirk in an anthology story. It's just being misused a lot these days by people who don't know or care where it came from and simply think it means "perfect female character", which in turn simply becomes "any female character who upsets the tradition of the ultra competent male hero".

The way we had Michael Burnham lambasted simultaneously for being an awful officer and a Mary Sue is symptomatic of that widespread misuse and misunderstanding of the term.

If she were a he, I'd be calling him a Wesley Crusher or something.

More typically Gary Sue or some variation thereof

I'm speaking for myself and have given no statistics from which to divine grains of sand from. The only fact I can support would be that statistically I cannot be the only who believes this.

Statistically many people believe the Earth is flat. They can make much the same claim.
 
No, I don't think Rey was/is a Mary Sue.*

No, I don't think calling her a Mary Sue (or being critical of Rose Tico or Admiral Holdo) is inherently sexist either...

*Rey is the exact same kind of force prodigy Anakin was, a counterweight to the growing powers of a singular dark side side force user (in Anakin's case - Palpatine, in Rey's - Ben Solo)
 
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