Who's The Best Person?

[Lance]

In aspiring to be human, Data is frequently a better mirror of everything we *can* be than any of the other characters. His innocent outlook often ends up leading not just the other characters, but we the viewers at home, to see things from the purest perspective.

 

[Marynator]

I really don't feel I can agree about Data being any kind of taker, he's like the most selfless person I've ever seen. He's kind and helpful to everyone, and wasn't it Data who kind of called them out when they're making fun of Reg? He's so wonderfully sensitive and supportive always, I don't see how he could be called a taker.

@Mojochi I'm not sure about Beverly really being self-righteous, I feel she's more just extremely compassionate, lol. And I feel she's also very, very ethical, and she places like morality well over legality, if you know what I mean? I disagree about that episode "Ethics", because she saw through that other doctor, knowing she didn't really care about Worf but was trying to trick him into agreeing to let her use her experiment on him giving him what Beverly truly felt was a false hope, like she's some sort of predator taking advantage of him, and Beverly truly believed she's trying to protect Worf, right?

Beverly was like always the first person to warm up to people, and she'd care for people others overlook, like how she loved that Ferengi scientist, I just sense from her she loves everyone and doesn't care about politics or anything, she cared deeply about Romulans and Borg. I feel she's a truly inspirational person, I strive to be as much like her as I can be.

Data's still perfect though, he doesn't make mistakes lol.

 

[Steven P Bastien]

Data's still perfect though, he doesn't make mistakes lol.

If we think he has made a mistake, most likely the fault is in ourselves.

 

[Marynator]

I maybe worded that wrong, lol. I mean he can make mistakes, but his judgement is like as close to perfect as you'll get, in my mind at least?

 

[Nyotarules]

I vote for Spot! Worf is a close second

 

[Steven P Bastien]

I maybe worded that wrong, lol. I mean he can make mistakes, but his judgement is like as close to perfect as you'll get, in my mind at least?

So close to perfect that we are not qualified to judge him. We are too flawed.

 

[Mojochi]

@Mojochi I'm not sure about Beverly really being self-righteous, I feel she's more just extremely compassionate, lol. And I feel she's also very, very ethical, and she places like morality well over legality, if you know what I mean? I disagree about that episode "Ethics", because she saw through that other doctor, knowing she didn't really care about Worf but was trying to trick him into agreeing to let her use her experiment on him giving him what Beverly truly felt was a false hope, like she's some sort of predator taking advantage of him, and Beverly truly believed she's trying to protect Worf, right?

Beverly was like always the first person to warm up to people, and she'd care for people others overlook, like how she loved that Ferengi scientist, I just sense from her she loves everyone and doesn't care about politics or anything, she cared deeply about Romulans and Borg. I feel she's a truly inspirational person, I strive to be as much like her as I can be.

Data's still perfect though, he doesn't make mistakes lol.

I'm not questioning how caring a person Bev is. She is remarkably compassionate, generous, & kind. All I'm saying is that her sense of what is right trumps everything & everbody else. I've never seen her question her own convictions, like Picard or Data do.

"Maybe what I think is right doesn't matter"
"Maybe my perspective is skewed on this"
"Maybe this person disagreeing with me has a point"
I've never seen her check herself like that, in anything that mattered

That's self-righteousness. It can be pretty narrow minded, when you'd be wiiling to risk the safety of your entire crew & maybe the whole UFP over demanding to treat one Borg drone.

The issue with Worf's spine has nothing to do with the other doctor. In that aspect she is right, & upholding better medical ethics than the other doc.

But my point is that even Picard has to point out to her that Worf is free to do as he pleases. That she doesn't agree with his decision is irrelevant. What's right for her, isn't what he thinks is right for him. She is not the arbiter of what is right, all the time. That MD after her name doesn't mean her judgemnent is irreproachable.

Bear in mind, my scrutinizing these characters'....... character shouldn't be confused for condenmnation. I don't think she's a bad person for this. I just have a hard time calling her the best of them. I actually think Picard is a better person. Picard takes a lot of flack for being arrogant, but I actually think his hubris isn't quite as bad as hers, imho

 

[XCV330]

Data is pretty good but he sucks at giving funeral eulogies.
If there were some rubric to test how often someone saved everyone else selflessly, worked tirelessly, and went beyond their limited training..
oh god.. no

Wesley Crusher is the best person.

 

[Marynator]

I understand what you're saying, I guess for me I just don't feel she's actually ever been wrong that I can remember, so I maybe feel she's totally justified in knowing she's right?

I do feel Ethics is sort of like a metaphor for how unscrupulous people will try to take advantage of vulnerable people, and manipulate them into doing something not really in his or her best interest, but solely for their own benefit, you know what I mean? Those vulnerable people need someone like Beverly watching out for what's really their best interest even when they don't see it, because they're currently compromised. But yes Beverly couldn't really stop him, and she didn't, even though she truly disagreed with it, I see her as a woman who is supremely convinced of her convictions and she doesn't back down to pressure.

I've been in an emotionally abusive relationship, I've been a victim to manipulation, so I really empathize with Mr Worf in Ethics, I wish I had someone like Beverly who cared enough about me to stand up like she did for Worf. That's really just my personal view though, but I'm feeling more and more convinced Beverly's #2 after Mr Data, lol.

Yes @XCV330 Wesley is good too! Maybe he's a product of a wonderful mother?

 

[Mojochi]

If there were some rubric to test how often someone saved everyone else selflessly, worked tirelessly, and went beyond their limited training..
oh god.. no

Wesley Crusher is the best person.

Dammit. It's actually kind of hard to argue against that lol
I guess you could say he's a little smug. He is the one who started the Barclay/Broccoli thing

I guess for me I just don't feel she's actually ever been wrong that I can remember

oh... I do, & with that, I'll move on lol


You know, bringing up Wesley made someone else occur to me. Even though it's probably due to not having been around long enough to establish any character defects, there's someone else I've been overlooking. Tasha. She's a pretty solid person... corny... but solid. I can't think of anything she's ever done that I found questionable, unlike pretty much everyone else. I didn't like Guinan meddling with Tasha in Yesterday's Enterprise. Even Picard has that Homeward bad judgment call. They all have a moment or 2.

But not Tasha. Dammit, I think I have to change my nominee to Tasha... which sucks, because I don't even like Tasha lol

 

[Steven P Bastien]

Wesley was good, but he was involved in that scandal that resulted in his friend getting killed. Still, he eventually did the right thing an brought the truth out about that incident. As good as he was, and as good an example to young people that he was, the writers brought him down hard. It was another teaching moment for the young viewers.

This is one of many key differences between us and Data. Sometimes we need to make mistakes before we figure out what is right and wrong. Data needed to learn many things over time, but morality always seemed to be a central constant of his nature.

 

[Marynator]

I don't feel Tasha ever really did anything bad, but I also just don't feel she really did enough good, you know what I mean? Like I can't think of enough examples where she really put herself out there to stand up for people suffering or disenfranchised, like like how Beverly would.

I'm curious, I'd love to discuss times when you feel Beverly was wrong? If you'd rather not publicly I'd love to chat privately.

I feel Wesley was as much a victim as collaborator in The First Duty, like he made such a mistake letting his leader pressure them, even when he knew it was so dangerous, but you'd be surprised at like how powerful pressure can be coming down like that, right? But he was still good, because he wasn't going to let it go, even though he could've gotten away with it, which I just feel was ever so important to his story.

 

[Mojochi]

I don't feel Tasha ever really did anything bad, but I also just don't feel she really did enough good, you know what I mean? Like I can't think of enough examples where she really put herself out there to stand up for people suffering or disenfranchised, like like how Beverly would.

She joined Starfleet. That's why they're all good. They joined to do good. She risked her life in trying to get that dumb vaccine lol

but yeah, there's not much history to base one way or the other. I just have to assume she's good. A lot of that stuff in her final hologram testament hinted at a very caring, thoughtful, generous & kind person

I feel Wesley was as much a victim as collaborator in The First Duty, like he made such a mistake letting his leader pressure them, even when he knew it was so dangerous, but you'd be surprised at like how powerful pressure can be coming down like that, right? But he was still good, because he wasn't going to let it go, even though he could've gotten away with it, which I just feel was ever so important to his story.

Honestly, most of Wesley's faults can be attributed to immaturity, especially the Nova Squadron thing

I'm curious, I'd love to discuss times when you feel Beverly was wrong? If you'd rather not publicly I'd love to chat privately.

I discuss it publicly a lot. I just don't want anybody to think I'm trashing Bev. It's not really the point of the thread

But I honestly think she is terribly wrong in placing the care of a single Borg over the safety of her away team, her entire ship & crew, & maybe even the security of the entire UFP. I feel the same about her actions in The High Ground, for the same reason, & I don't think she's objectively in the right, in how she dealt with Worf in Ethics. She's right about that other doctor, but not about Worf. She seems to think being right about one means she's right about both. I disagree

But maybe you're right. I shouldn't harp on it too much in this thread. We can discuss it privately

 

[Makarov]

I'd say Riker honestly. He gives up the power of the Q. Holds off on promotion just to stay around friends and learn. Gives great advice to Data and Geordie anyone who asks him. Prone to emotions (almost supported blowing up the crystalline entity etc) but open enough to learn and do the right thing there. Open to learning about other cultures with that klingon exchange episode. Great work life balance and is able to keep a relationship with Troi. I can't think of anyone who doesn't like the guy or respect him. Best representation of humanity right there.

 

[Mojochi]

I'd say Riker honestly. He gives up the power of the Q. Holds off on promotion just to stay around friends and learn. Gives great advice to Data and Geordie anyone who asks him. Prone to emotions (almost supported blowing up the crystalline entity etc) but open enough to learn and do the right thing there. Open to learning about other cultures with that klingon exchange episode. Great work life balance and is able to keep a relationship with Troi. I can't think of anyone who doesn't like the guy or respect him. Best representation of humanity right there.

I can think of one guy he served under that doesn't like him, but I probably shouldn't dig open that old wound lol

He's pretty judgmental. Quick to ride Barclay, never lets up on Ro, cheap about giving a new guy some credit, like with Sam Lavelle. It took all he could muster to patch things up with his own dad. I don't mean to suggest he's a bad person, but when people always talk about the TNG crew being cliquish & snobby, a lot of that is him. I actually do like that he got humbled some over the years

Second Chances knocked him down a peg or two, even a Matter of Perspective was a good gut check for him, & then there's the Pegasus. All of that later stuff did a lot to humanize him & make him more relatable, which was a good move imho

 

[Makarov]

Realistically I think all of Starfleet even Jellico would have more respect for him after the Best of Both Worlds incident where he saves the earth. Everyone would hear about Wolf 359 losses would also know Riker commanded when they blew up that cube. It stretches my disbelief that Jellico would be testing him and hassle him over the shift rotations after that.

Ro kind of had it coming as well since she disrespected the ship & starfleet a bunch of times. Also consider Shelby in BoBW, he put the mission above his personal feelings worked together and eventually they came to respect eachother. WIth a bit more time I think him and Jellico would get along.

 

[Mojochi]

Realistically I think all of Starfleet even Jellico would have more respect for him after the Best of Both Worlds incident where he saves the earth. Everyone would hear about Wolf 359 losses would also know Riker commanded when they blew up that cube. It stretches my disbelief that Jellico would be testing him and hassle him over the shift rotations after that.

But it wasn't Riker he was testing. It wasn't that personal. He just expected the entire crew to follow his orders, & however you feel about that, Riker didn't think he ought to. lol

In truth, it's very possible that Jellico thinks Riker might be an excellent captain, but that isn't the same thing as thinking he's a good 1st officer. He could very well have respect for Riker commanding the D during Wolf 359, but still think he's not right for the role of first officer anymore. Command & 2nd in command is not the same role, & by their interactions, Riker was acting like he should be the one in charge. He said as much to Nechayev. We know Riker is a good XO, but by the way things panned out with Jellico, it's fair to see why he might think otherwise, based on that limited stint. Riker wasn't being the way we usually see him, imho

Ro kind of had it coming as well since she disrespected the ship & starfleet a bunch of times. .

In the beginning, yes. She was responsible for a mission going horribly wrong, & paid for that. Nobody thought she should be back in uniform, right off, but Picard saw something & kept her on board. From that point on, Riker should be just as open, but he continues to butt heads with her right up until Conundrum (When things got awkward lol). Some of that's on him imho

 

[Nakita Akita]

Worf is the best person. He is always striving to be and do the honorable thing.
He believes in honor above everything and what could possibly be better than being honorable?

Picard is pompous and self righteous.
Beverly is self righteous.
Riker is a lazy horn dog.

Geordi is next best after Worf. He tries to do good, he never really seems to be self serving, he is not pompous or self righteous.

Troi, was good in my book until she told Riker while standing on the Bridgd that Catain Jellico Wasn't sure of himself. Right there gave her the title of mind reading busy body.

Data is good overall, but without emotions he doesn't have any sense of 'self' to override or work through.

I'm going with Worf and/or Geordie

 

[XCV330]

Worf is the best person. He is always striving to be and do the honorable thing.
He believes in honor above everything and what could possibly be better than being honorable?

Picard is pompous and self righteous.
Beverly is self righteous.
Riker is a lazy horn dog.

Geordi is next best after Worf. He tries to do good, he never really seems to be self serving, he is not pompous or self righteous.

Troi, was good in my book until she told Riker while standing on the Bridgd that Catain Jellico Wasn't sure of himself. Right there gave her the title of mind reading busy body.

Data is good overall, but without emotions he doesn't have any sense of 'self' to override or work through.

I'm going with Worf and/or Geordie

Worf is the worst father in Trek.

 

[Steven P Bastien]

Troi, was good in my book until she told Riker while standing on the Bridgd that Catain Jellico Wasn't sure of himself. Right there gave her the title of mind reading busy body.

But, busy-body-ness was not on the original list of Mojochi. The question was about " Nobility, integrity, righteousness, generosity, kindness, loyalty, humility, reliability". It seems unfair to fault Troi for this one incident especially when Jellico was such an ass. When you work for a jerk, you and your coworkers need to find coping mechanisms.

Joking mostly, but I wanted to say that I think she embodied all the things on the list to a marked degree. She's not my first choice, but she is not far off the mark.