Kathleen Kennedy Damaging Star Wars....?

[fireproof78]

If all it takes to turn you away from a franchise you claim to love is one movie you didn't like, then I really have to question how much of a fan you really were in the first place.

It's a very emotional reaction, as fan is just a shorthand for "fanatic." It is a highly emotion, reactive, state that comes with it a high level of expectations and a fear of change. If something changes then it might not still bring the same type of feelings.

That's what fanatic love can become-a desire for things to stay the same.

TLJ did something that Lucas had done before-dismantled the mythology. The Old Republic was not as great as Obi-Wan wistfully remembers. The Jedi Order wasn't perfect. It had flaws and scars and problems. Much like Star Wars films, the Jedi Order was intended for one thing, and became consumed by something else.

I get that different individuals react differently and ascribe more meaning that I do to Star Wars. I get that emotions run high and people react. To answer your questions @JD I don't think its a matter of questioning a fandom-I think its wanting it to stay the same-forever.

 

[Jayson1]

Well we don;t know if people are getting really all that worked up over this stuff. If they did they would be typing everything in caps and going emoji crazy! Also exclamation points that never end!!!! If someone says something like:

I don't really like Kathleen Kennedy and what she is doing to Star Wars.. This can be anything from simple opinion based on anything from sexism to tastes. Nobody knows so it's hard to judge. On the otherhand:

KATHLEEN KENNEDY IS RUINING STAR WARS!!!!!!! Then it means you have more of a basis to asume that the person is a little triggered. For things that shouldn't matter.

Anyways I thought TLJ was okay. Mostly the Luke and Rey stuff. Everything else looked nice. Special effects are quite good in these movies. Kind of pissed they took out Akbar like he was nothing. You don't just kill a internet meme like he was nothing. Also why did they waste time with Laura Dern's role? Was this a late addition due to Carrie Fisher's death? I think we all know Lando should have been next in line. Is anyone ever going to find out why it's taking so long to get Billy Dee WIlliams back?

Jason

 

[Valenti]

What Star Wars needs is a theme. The original trilogy had the concept storyline of the young rebels and Jedi resisting the old establishment empire with Sith lords. This is a universal generational theme but it's over with. Now there should be a new metaphor with each trilogy. Mythology is full of themes, not just the hero's journey. Check out Joseph Cambell's work which was what the original series was based on. There's a million myths in every religion that could act as the basis for a solid trilogy at least or just a plain old original intergalactic political conflict. You don't even need a big bad or a love story per say.

 

[Jayson1]

What Star Wars needs is a theme. The original trilogy had the concept storyline of the young rebels and Jedi resisting the old establishment empire with Sith lords. This is a universal generational theme but it's over with. Now there should be a new metaphor with each trilogy. Mythology is full of themes, not just the hero's journey. Check out Joseph Cambell's work which was what the original series was based on. There's a million myths in every religion that could act as the basis for a solid trilogy at least or just a plain old original intergalactic political conflict. You don't even need a big bad or a love story per say.

This makes a great deal of sense. Something that makes it all feel larger than life and timeless. I think the only real theme going is a passing the torch theme between old and new characters but that seems to be character related and not really all that big-picture or epic. Maybe it should have been about finding out what the force is about and God and the idea of a afterlife and so forth. Now that I think about it make Rey have future Cancer and she is going to die and the entire theme of the movies is about coming to terms with death. Are old heros die and even the Jedi and soon she will be faced with it as well.

Jason

 

[Valenti]

Gotta know what a metaphor is though.

 

[thribs]

She’s just got a rather dull imagination. She needs to look into the EU stufff. Get an idea on what you can do with the franchise.

 

[Trekkin]

She’s just got a rather dull imagination. She needs to look into the EU stufff. Get an idea on what you can do with the franchise.

1. Kathleen Kennedy isn’t a writer. We have no idea the extent of her creative input, but we’ve heard nothing to indicate she’s involved in the script stage.

2. The solution to ‘dullness’ and unoriginality is to...steal directly from 30 year old Star Wars books. Which themselves tended to constantly rehash the movies. And each other. And whatever sci-fi/genre property was in vogue at the time.

3. People who truly hold ‘fresh’ as an important creative element, wouldn’t be eagerly awaiting the twelfth Star Wars film.
Fourteenth if you count TV movies.
Fifteenth is we count ‘specials.’ Which we’re fucking not.
Come to think of it...they probably wouldn’t want much to do with Star Wars at all. Unless their particular brand of geek-ery is specifically in the development of props and effects. ‘Fresh ideas’ has never exactly been it’s calling card.

4. I swear to god: The day the words ‘Cade Skywalker’ or ‘Yuuzhan Vong invasion/war’ show up in a Star Wars movie synopsis, is the day I stop preordering my damn Star Wars tix.

 

[INACTIVESamusAranX]

1. Kathleen Kennedy isn’t a writer. We have no idea the extent of her creative input, but we’ve heard nothing to indicate she’s involved in the script stage.

If anything. She seems to be more hands off than George Lucas

2. The solution to ‘dullness’ and unoriginality is to...steal directly from 30 year old Star Wars books. Which themselves tended to constantly rehash the movies. And each other. And whatever sci-fi/genre property was in vogue at the time.

Wait so you’re saying you *don’t* want to see Waru grace the big screen? What kind of fan are you?

That said, franchises like Star Wars and Star Trek, tend to self cannibalize. When you have such a vast franchise it’s inevitable. That’s when execution comes into play. That said I feel there’s a lot of EU ideas and storylines that would be worth exploring. But again, it’s all in execution.

3. People who truly hold ‘fresh’ as an important creative element, wouldn’t be eagerly awaiting the twelfth Star Wars film.
Fourteenth if you count TV movies.

Come to think of it...they probably wouldn’t want much to do with Star Wars at all. Unless they’re particular brand of geek-ery is specifically in the development of props and effects. ‘Fresh ideas’ has never exactly been it’s calling card.

I agree that this is part of the appeal, and why I initially took to disliking TLJ. That said, while the movie does an examination of those tropes and turning them on their head, it also reinforces the basic ideals of Star Wars but with a twist. Now that I understand that, I appreciate what the film tried to do more.

4. I swear to god: The day the words ‘Cade Skywalker’ or ‘Yuuzhan Vong invasion/war’ show up in a Star Wars movie synopsis, is the day I stop preordering my damn Star Wars tix.

Agreed on Cade, but would love to see the YV invasion. You yourself said above we had 30 years worth of material: the New Jedi Order series was the most original thing the EU did. It explored a villain other than your typical dark sided maniacs, and explored the nature of the force ala TLJ. Some of the novels were dogs but others gave us the best writing the EU had to offer (Vector Prime, the Edge of Victory duology, Star by Star, Traitor, and the Unifying Force).

 

[mos6507]

Oh, she's definitely part of the problem. 100%. But she's been in the Spielberg/Lucas orbit for 37 years now. She's been a producer for 30 years at least. She has accumulated a lot of power through a long career.....so she's going nowhere. Nothing can touch her, short of a string of successive box office bombs (which is unlikely, because even if "Solo" bombs....Disney is ready for it). So these Youtubers that are angry at her are chasing a lost cause.

I wouldn't say that. Disney buying SW in the first place was a bombshell and you could say part of the impulse on George's part to let go was fan backlash. It just takes a LOT of grinding and grinding backlash to cause that sort of sea-change. Oh, and Snyder is, from all accounts, being quietly sidelined by WB.

You have to understand that once you put something out there it is canon you're stuck with it. It's unlikely that SW will go through a full reboot anytime soon so when films, as successful as they may be monetarily, don't go down well with fans, then it degrades the IP value in the long-run. So it would benefit the powers that be to try to make money AND please fans/critics, something the MCU has been most successful of so far.

 

[Jayson1]

I think a big issue is overexposure and people also taking Star Wars for granted. They no longer feel special so it's easier to nitpick and complain about the stuff we don't like in the movies but also expect Disney to keep sending more of them out all the time. Plus Kennedy has the baggage of basically being Rick Berman. She isn't a creative force behind anything. At least when Lucas failed with the prequels( I know eveyone doesn't agree with that) it was at least i his creative vision you saw up their. He was trying to do something different. Now "Star Wars" feels like a "Product" In the past you only had that feeling when it came to the toys and merchandise. The political stuff doesn't help. People sort of expect the suits to basically be boring types who sit around counting the money while the artist talk about social relevance and cultural impact and stuff like that. It's not a good thing that the directors now feel like tv directors where they are just yes men to the corporate suits who make all the real choices in content.

Jason

 

[Awesome Possum]

I think she’s the best thing to happen to the franchise in decades.

 

[fireproof78]

The day the words ‘Cade Skywalker’ or ‘Yuuzhan Vong invasion/war’ show up in a Star Wars movie synopsis, is the day I stop preordering my damn Star Wars tix.

Indeed.

It's not a good thing that the directors now feel like tv directors where they are just yes men to the corporate suits who make all the real choices in content.

As opposed to what GL did with the PT? I'm sorry, I respect the fact that GL did his project his way, and that level of work takes dedication. The man has nearly killed himself in the name of our entertainment. But, the BTS stuff felt like a lot of yes men as well.

 

[Lexx Shrapnel]

I wouldn't say that. Disney buying SW in the first place was a bombshell and you could say part of the impulse on George's part to let go was fan backlash. It just takes a LOT of grinding and grinding backlash to cause that sort of sea-change. Oh, and Snyder is, from all accounts, being quietly sidelined by WB.

General movie fans who won't see it in the first weeks also had a poor opinion, not just the fans.

 

[Kor]

...It's not a good thing that the directors now feel like tv directors where they are just yes men to the corporate suits who make all the real choices in content.
...

But this has always been common in the mainstream movie industry. Directors are mostly hired guns, there to roll out a product that the studio wants. The vast majority of movies that get shown in commercial theaters are really the "Producer's Cut," not necessarily exactly what the director would have wanted to make.

Aside from the field of art-house indie cinema that's watched by me and about seven other people, only a few high-profile, respected directors really get free reign and a chance to express their "vision" through their films.

Kor

 

[Jayson1]

Really? I always felt like movie directors had more control. In fact one of the reasons why Whedon stopped doing Marvel movies was because of Feige(wrong spelling?) wanted to control of his movie along with Edgar Wright. Maybe it's just seems worst with Kennedy with the several directors being fired and the re-shoots. It sort of gives off the vibe they don't really know what they want to do plus you wonder how much Disney gets involved and even overrules Kennedy. The whole things kind of reminds me of the "South Park" episode were Mickey Mouse is talking about what they will do with "Star Wars" in a kind of funny but crude way.

Jason

 

[M.A.C.O.]

Really? I always felt like movie directors had more control. In fact one of the reasons why Whedon stopped doing Marvel movies was because of Feige(wrong spelling?) wanted to control of his movie along with Edgar Wright. Maybe it's just seems worst with Kennedy with the several directors being fired and the re-shoots. It sort of gives off the vibe they don't really know what they want to do plus you wonder how much Disney gets involved and even overrules Kennedy. The whole things kind of reminds me of the "South Park" episode were Mickey Mouse is talking about what they will do with "Star Wars" in a kind of funny but crude way.

Jason

It depends on who the director is and how much pull they have with the studio.

George Lucas could do whatever he wanted. Because he had his own audio company (Skywalker Sound), special effects company (Industrial Lights and Magic), his production company (Lucasfilm), and enough money to produce/bankroll his own vision.

J.J. Abrams had a lot of pull with the Trek movies and TFA. Because he had his own production company (Bad Robot). Which allowed him to shoot the films, edit and market them the way he wanted.

Christopher Nolan has his own production company as well (Syncopy) and can basically write his own ticket at WB.

Meanwhile, most of the directors of the MCU's movies, for example, are point and shoot directors. Most people don't know their names or their body of work before they did a Marvel movie. Feige and his production team are the real power of those films. Joss Whedon was a big name prior to being attached to Avengers, so they put his name all over everything. Including, Agents of Shield.

Kathleen Kennedy had a lot of producer credits, working along with Spielberg, Lucas and others for decades. So, she has a lot of pull in Hollywood.

 

[BillJ]

It is clearly a running theme throughout the films that the Skywalker men can't handle their Force.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

It is clearly a running theme throughout the films that the Skywalker men can't handle their Force.

Well so far it's only the odd-numbered Skywalker men. Luke did OK, didn't he?

 

[BillJ]

Well so far it's only the odd-numbered Skywalker men. Luke did OK, didn't he?

Well, he eventually stomped off over Kylo Ren. He was real whiny early on in the original trilogy. All we really know, is that he held it together long enough to defeat Vader.

 

[Trekkin]

And still hacked off Vader’s arm whilst attempting to kill him. Because Luke was unable to just ignore some verbal goading.

(Oh, and attemted to lop the head off (what he thought) was the completely defenceless Emperor. But since Star Wars has a weird approach as to whether that would have been a bad thing, I’ll let it slide.)

Made slightly funny by him telling Obi-Wan and Yoda that he was most definitely not going to be doing any of that, and how could they expect that of him the monsters?!