USS Enterprise (eventually) on Discovery?

[roneill]

So, if we accept the premise that the Discoprise exists because general audiences would find the TOS original too dated

Presumably then in general the show is designed to appeal to people who find the original series too dated to stomach, but are desperate to know what happened approximately 10 years earlier.

Something tells me that subset of fans is quite a lot smaller than the number who would have preferred the series to be set post Nemesis.

 

[cooleddie74]

I respect the people who think TOS looks outdated and stupid. I think they're wrong and in some cases insane, but I'll respect their view.

That said, if somebody thinks the Matt Jefferies Enterprise from TOS is laughable and an insult to modern audiences all I'll say is this: My, isn't the foliage especially lovely today? (*Points to bush of poison ivy*) Take a whiff of these.

 

[Belz...]

The plural of anecdote is not data.

You know, many people use that phrase but it's stupid as all hell. Anecdotes ARE data. And in your haste to put me down you forgot to read my post: I admitted that I didn't have statistics; that my evidence was anecdotal, so what do you think you're putting down, exactly?

It'd be like someone saying they started a business and that it's going rather well for the first year but that they made a loss, and you popping in to say "yeah but you didn't make a profit, did you?". Yeah, he just said that.

Do you have something constructive to add, instead?

 

[Mudd]

So, if we accept the premise that the Discoprise exists because general audiences would find the TOS original too dated, then that raises the question: who is subscribing to CBSAA? Is it a general audience, or is a majority of it self-described Star Trek fans tuning in just to watch the new ST series?

I mean, to spell it out, if it's the latter, then the original premise doesn't make a lot of sense.

It's the latter, of course, and like so many decisions on this show the reasoning behind the changes is confused.

 

[plynch]

Sometimes we try our best, but are confused. At least I am. Sometimes there's no getting around dual purposes and you try your best to satisfy both.

I play jazz which hardly anyone knows or truly likes anymore. I like doing cool music artistically. I also like money. I try to do both. Just heard an interview with a great Broadway producer (Hamilton, Evan, etc.) who said as much. DSC's ppl seem in a smilar sort of bind between True Fans and normal folks.

 

[Mudd]

While not really an afficianado, I love jazz. It's astonishing to me that it has so close to vanished on the last half century, relative to its wide popularity for so many decades.

 

[BillJ]

There are two aspects of the STD design that arguably improve it for modern use: the parts of the ship tie in to one another a little bit, unlike the TOS construction of a stick poking out of a cylinder, etc... and the addition of hull detail.

Both of these things were done about forty years ago when the ship was upgraded for ST:TMP. The ship is no more "modern" than that.

I've always liked the series version far better than the refit. I realize the original was designed in the 60's, but upon close inspection I'm always baffled by the claims that it lacks details. The refit has the aztec patterns, but I was never especially fond of them it just makes it look busy for the sake of looking busy. I guess that is considered "modern".

 

[Tuskin38]

Picture time!

You should try and stick the official DSC model render in there as well.

It isn’t as high res but it’s clear

https://imgur.com/a/0aan96K


If it really is 450’ish meters, deck one is going to be huge

I don’t have it on me as I’m on my phone, but I overlayed the TOS saucer, the bridge module is roughly the same size when matched up.

I wonder if this is another instance of it being designed smaller then scaled up.

 

[Mudd]

I've always liked the series version far better than the refit. I realize the original was designed in the 60's, but upon close inspection I'm always baffled by the claims that it lacks details. The refit has the aztec patterns, but I was never especially fond of them it just makes it look busy for the sake of looking busy. I guess that is considered "modern".

The TOS Enterprise has a certain level of detail: everything important about it is pretty visible from a distance. The details, as it were, are all on one scale, to be seen from hundreds of feet away: glowing windows, hull projections, bright colored markings, those spinning nacelles etc.

As you approach it, there are only one or two minor textural details that become visible...mostly, a few grille patterns on the inner nacelles and the secondary hull.

The ST:TMP version adds additional detail on smaller scales, so that from a distance it appears very similarly to the way the TOS ship appears, but as the camera approaches it new levels of detail become apparent: the hull patterns ("aztecing"), a lot of little nernies, airlocks etc.

 

[Longinus]

The TOS Enterprise has a certain level of detail: everything important about it is pretty visible from a distance. The details, as it were, are all on one scale, to be seen from hundreds of feet away: glowing windows, hull projections, bright colored markings, those spinning nacelles etc.

As you approach it, there are only one or two minor textural details that become visible...mostly, a few grille patterns on the inner nacelles and the secondary hull.

The ST:TMP version adds additional detail on smaller scales, so that from a distance it appears very similarly to the way the TOS ship appears, but as the camera approaches it new levels of detail become apparent: the hull patterns ("aztecing"), a lot of little nernies, airlocks etc.

Yep. And that's why I would have prefered them to just add those small scale details for Enterprise's DSC appearance and leave the design otherwise alone.

 

[Firebird]

So, if we accept the premise that the Discoprise exists because general audiences would find the TOS original too dated, then that raises the question: who is subscribing to CBSAA? Is it a general audience, or is a majority of it self-described Star Trek fans tuning in just to watch the new ST series?

You have to remember that DSC is being distributed by Netflix in all countries outside the US, so the international audience is made up of more potential casual viewers catching the show for the first time. I'd imagine CBS All-Access subscribers in the US would be more likely to be existing Trek fans.

 

[Mudd]

...the international audience is made up of more potential casual viewers catching the show for the first time.

There is, however, no information or evidence to this effect.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

You have to remember that DSC is being distributed by Netflix in all countries outside the US, so the international audience is made up of more potential casual viewers catching the show for the first time. I'd imagine CBS All-Access subscribers in the US would be more likely to be existing Trek fans.

But the question is, who does CBS expect to carry the load to get reimbursed for producing DSC, CBSAA subscribers or Netflix? My info might be in error, but my understanding is that the plan is for CBSAA subscribers to carry the load.

Presumably then in general the show is designed to appeal to people who find the original series too dated to stomach, but are desperate to know what happened approximately 10 years earlier.

Well said.

IMO, all this makes the idea that the reason is to tell new toys seem plausible. But it also lends credence to the idea that there is a great deal of confusion at the top; this is not the only thing doing that either.

 

[cooleddie74]

The TOS Enterprise has a certain level of detail: everything important about it is pretty visible from a distance. The details, as it were, are all on one scale, to be seen from hundreds of feet away: glowing windows, hull projections, bright colored markings, those spinning nacelles etc.

As you approach it, there are only one or two minor textural details that become visible...mostly, a few grille patterns on the inner nacelles and the secondary hull.

The ST:TMP version adds additional detail on smaller scales, so that from a distance it appears very similarly to the way the TOS ship appears, but as the camera approaches it new levels of detail become apparent: the hull patterns ("aztecing"), a lot of little nernies, airlocks etc.

The TOS Enterprise also has a few small hatches with signs on them on the underside of the saucer section as well as the little numbers in TOS-era font on certain sections of hull plating or above windows. Not a lot compared to starships in future series and films of the franchise but still, there were some you had to look very hard to see and were added to give the ship more "real world" detail.

 

[Jadeb]

One day people will look back and wonder, "Why did they think we'd need all those hatches when we have transporters and a shuttle bay?"

 

[Kor]

One day people will look back and wonder, "Why did they think we'd need all those hatches when we have transporters and a shuttle bay?"

As a fail-safe in case the transporters and shuttle bay doors go kaput put they still need to get out of the ship.

Kor

 

[AlanC9]

So, if we accept the premise that the Discoprise exists because general audiences would find the TOS original too dated, then that raises the question: who is subscribing to CBSAA? Is it a general audience, or is a majority of it self-described Star Trek fans tuning in just to watch the new ST series?

I mean, to spell it out, if it's the latter, then the original premise doesn't make a lot of sense.

Wait a second. I'm not sure we ought to conflate the "general audience/fan" dichotomy and the "old design/new design" dichotomy. Can't someone be a TOS fan and nevertheless think that the TOS designs look dated and shouldn't be re-used in a 2017 series?

 

[Prax]

Even 24th century ships are covered in docking ports and use them. It's faster than using a shuttle, and who wants to use that transporter?! eek!

You should try and stick the official DSC model render in there as well.

It isn’t as high res but it’s clear

https://imgur.com/a/0aan96K


If it really is 450’ish meters, deck one is going to be huge

I don’t have it on me as I’m on my phone, but I overlayed the TOS saucer, the bridge module is roughly the same size when matched up.

I wonder if this is another instance of it being designed smaller then scaled up.

Thanks. I found that one, but was having a hard time creating a transparency with the background and shadows.

 

[BillJ]

Can't someone be a TOS fan and nevertheless think that the TOS designs look dated and shouldn't be re-used in a 2017 series?

If that's the case then they shouldn't be trying to cram a new series into that narrative. Just do a reboot and be done with it. For all practical purposes, a reboot is what Discovery is.

Though that isn't by far its biggest issue, the poor writing is.

 

[themanthebelly]

You should try and stick the official DSC model render in there as well.

It isn’t as high res but it’s clear

https://imgur.com/a/0aan96K


If it really is 450’ish meters, deck one is going to be huge

I don’t have it on me as I’m on my phone, but I overlayed the TOS saucer, the bridge module is roughly the same size when matched up.

I wonder if this is another instance of it being designed smaller then scaled up.

Thought this a good a moment this as any: I strongly suspect deck 1 will be huge. A vast two-level bridge. The upper level will be the perimeter of the bridge with the captain's chair and view screen on the lower level of deck 1. Looking from the outside I might even suspect that it has three viewscreens. A forward, port and starboard one. I reckon this is the bridge set under construction, with some rough modifications to illustrate:

Top be honest, the more I look at this the more I think I've over-scaled the crew men in the bottom image. *edited for clarity