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USS Enterprise (eventually) on Discovery?

Well, that's the problem. The original doesn't really look that futuristic anymore. Blame it on sci-fi that's been made since.
I'm addressing this new sci-fi's choices. Each series makes its own. TNG made the Enterprise less cool and was cooler for it.
Is this sarcasm? The original's nacelles were the most rocket-like of all Trek nacelles.
The balls helped. This version dropped them.
First of all, they may need it in some circumtances (emergency landing), and second, it's just a design choice.
It doesn't have wheels; emergency landing doesn't need a runway. It is a design choice, and that's what I'm objecting to. I think I'm allowed.
Please tell me you're joking.
Please tell me why we're doing this line by line, if we're not saying anything.
 
Except they’re glowing like every other engine in Star Trek

I’m not seeing the rocket comparison
I'm referring to the balls at the back of the nacelles, not the Bussard Collectors (the red balls at the front). They were additions added to the ship after the pilot, when the ship looked more Captain Proton-y.
 
The point is that we have tech today that does a lot more than a TOS communicator, except in terms of comm range. It seems trivial that, in 250 years, they'd have a LOT better, but from seeing TOS, they don't. The reason is simple: back in 1966 they had no clue how technology would progress in just 40 years. And you can say that it's military tech but the point remains that in two and a half centuries I'd expect my soldiers and officers to have a lot better tools than we have now, all around.

Except in comm range? No. Communicators were subspace transceivers, as established in "Mudd's Women" (when Harry called the miners). That more than just changes the range, that involves interactions that don't even exist in the real world.

So, just how small can Starfleet mass produce a practical subspace transceiver? That's like asking how fast the ship can go or how long it takes to phaser through twenty meters of duranium. It's totally made up. The only thing we can really say is that, as the decades pass in-universe, it's reasonable to expect that communicators get smaller, which is exactly what happened.
 
Well, they've learned how to integrate the technology into their lives and society in a healthy and balanced way.

The Star Trek world also had a pretty large reset throughout the 21st century.
 
We see PADDs used for practical purposes in a military setting. In the military today, along with huge clunky radios, and sub sandwhich sized gps devices, they still use notepads and printouts. Digital signatures exist, but you aren't supposed to hook your cac reader to a mobile device. It's not secure.

Star Trek PADDs are commonly seen used for documents, signatures, scan readouts, graphics, and all sorts of other data(of which they can hold infinitely more than a modern day ipad). You can communicate through them(like an email or text), they sync, download, and upload wirelessly, and are connected to the ships computer.

I believe there's only one scene (in DS9) where it shows a bunch of PADDs being used by Bashir, each one displaying a separate scientific study. It was done for both comedic reasons, and to show that Bashir and his genetically modifed misfits were all simultaneously working up thousands of statistical probabilities.

A modern day tablet is a consumer device.
 
We see PADDs used for practical purposes in a military setting. In the military today, along with huge clunky radios, and sub sandwhich sized gps devices, they still use notepads and printouts. Digital signatures exist, but you aren't supposed to hook your cac reader to a mobile device. It's not secure.

Star Trek PADDs are commonly seen used for documents, signatures, scan readouts, graphics, and all sorts of other data(of which they can hold infinitely more than a modern day ipad). You can communicate through them(like an email or text), they sync, download, and upload wirelessly, and are connected to the ships computer.

I believe there's only one scene (in DS9) where it shows a bunch of PADDs being used by Bashir, each one displaying a separate scientific study. It was done for both comedic reasons, and to show that Bashir and his genetically modifed misfits were all simultaneously working up thousands of statistical probabilities.

A modern day tablet is a consumer device.
What's Picard's excuse?

Because it looks like a stack of paperwork, but in THE FUTURE!

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One PADD per department. Each handed in to the Captain at different times, rather than sending them via computer to his terminal. Because he needs to review them, sign off on them, and give them back....or, because sometimes Starfleet likes to give people outlets, allow him to throw the PADD across the room, break it in frustration, or beat the department head with it for their stupid suggestions after three weeks of Nothing to Explore.
 
A window on a starship wouldn't work. For proof, turn on the lights in your house and look out the window at night. All you'd see in the window is the bridge crew's reflection. It's why IRL, astronauts don't have lights inside their helmets. You wouldn't be able to see anything outside the window.
Indeed. It only works if you keep things darker inside than out.

And even if that weren't an issue (perhaps less on DSC than in the Abrams films? :rolleyes:), a bridge window would still give you a fairly narrow field of vision. At best, you're going to be able to see maybe 90 degrees side to side, and even less than that top to bottom (not least because of the saucer section blocking the view). Basically it would provide a wedge of a dorsal, fore-facing view, and that's it; for anything else you'd be SOL. Sensors, OTOH (even simple optical ones), can throw the view from any direction up on that viewscreen in an instant.

...It just made sense that it should be the same prop since the trend with technology is to combine as many functions into a device as we can.
But why does it make sense to expect that current trends in technology would continue for the next 250 years?

The problem is: It doesn't look futuristic anymore to modern viewers. They are used to smartphones with apps. That's not a problem of the show, but with the viewers. But a good show would try to ease viewers in this regard anyway. Introducing simply one device that can do everything would be a way.

But this is where canon and the whole prime timeline argument comes into play: It's essentially unimportant if that technological development was made in the 23rd century or the 24th, it's still the future. But in-universe there is a clear progression bar, that would be destroyed. Thus, every prequel show IS restricted in how it can portray the future - thus even looking somewhat like retro-future sometimes (which is bad for Star Trek!). While a simple sequel show (set in real-time distance after TNG) could easily ignore everything and be as futuristic as modern day viewers expect from a space opera show.
Some interesting points overall, but I can't agree with all of your assumptions. Why would a degree of retro-futurism be "bad for Star Trek"? Firefly had a healthy dose of retro-futurism in its design. So did Dark Matter. NuBSG had a friggin' ton of it... Adama even had corded phones on his bridge. Audiences never seemed to mind any of it. And unlike Trek none of those shows even had a nostalgia factor involved, never mind established continuity.

No, if I remember correctly the translator is shipboard. And where is it a tracking device?
Sure, it was built into the ship's computer (and particularly Uhura's comm station). But landing parties never needed to carry a dedicated translator (except when encountering wildly different life forms like the Companion in "Metamorphosis"). I always took it as understood that the capability was built into the communicators.

And beyond "understood," it was explicit that they served as tracking devices... they were used that way to locate people for beam-up time and again!

The computer also keeps track of all personnel and monitors their brainwaves.
How do you figure? If that were the case, the entire plot of "Court Martial" would fall apart. Am I forgetting some later episode that established this?

The Star Trek world also had a pretty large reset throughout the 21st century.
Indeed! It puzzles me to see so many people speculate about Trek's technology as an extrapolation of our own, as if they've forgotten that in Trek's reality, Earth suffered devastating global (or at least regional) wars in the 1990s, the 2020s, and (especially) the 2050s. That's the sort of thing that can throw any predictable course of tech development off-track, and quite plausibly require lots of things to be reinvented, or at least reconceptualized and taken in different directions. For that matter, what little we do know about the history of tech development in Trek's reality includes the fact that much of it in the late 20th century was derived from reverse-engineered future tech, and that much of the emphasis in the 21st century (when not derailed by the wars) was on space travel and exploration, to a far greater extent than in our reality. Seems to me like more than enough to justify any differences from present-day expectations.
 
But why does it make sense to expect that current trends in technology would continue for the next 250 years?
I would hope that progress would mean going forward, not backwards due to past shows not foreseeing future trends. I want to see a futuristic future, not some retro thing. If I wanted that I’d get into steampunk.
 
Obviously I'm not suggesting steampunk (nor has Trek ever come close to such a thing). I'm simply suggesting a take on "future trends" projected forward from a (relatively recent) point of divergence in the past, rather than from the present day... which is, after all, precisely what Star Trek's reality involves.

(And even if you don't like that, 250 years is a lot of time for various unpredictable disruptions in the development of science and technology. History doesn't move in straight lines; it's always a matter of irreducible contingencies. Would you expect anyone extrapolating forward from pre-revolutionary America to imagine anything at all like the world we inhabit today?)
 
Obviously I'm not suggesting steampunk (nor has Trek ever come close to such a thing). I'm simply suggesting a take on "future trends" projected forward from a (relatively recent) point of divergence in the past, rather than from the present day... which is, after all, precisely what Star Trek's reality involves.

(And even if you don't like that, 250 years is a lot of time for various unpredictable disruptions in the development of science and technology. History doesn't move in straight lines; it's always a matter of irreducible contingencies. Would you expect anyone extrapolating forward from pre-revolutionary America to imagine anything at all like the world we inhabit today?)
I like the idea of Trek looking like the future, not a retro future from the 60s that was outdated before I was born. It not lining up with established canon doesn’t bother me at all because it isn’t real. It’s just a show, relax. Maybe the Constitution class ships were designed to be retro by an engineer who was really into Mad Men (23rd century reboot version) and were the odd ships in the fleet.
 
I don't really follow what you're trying to say. It doesn't bother you if it doesn't look like established Trek canon because that's "not real" (well, sure, it's fiction, that's a given!... but it's no less real than any other fictional reality), even though we at least know what that looks like... but it does bother you if it doesn't "look like the future," even though that's also not real (as of the present day), and we have literally no idea what that may look like.

I mean, seriously, we can pretty much guarantee that the vision of "the future" presented in DSC is every bit as wildly different from what anything in the actual 23rd century will be like as anything in TOS ever was. It's all imaginary. It's just a different version of imaginary, not actually any more plausible or realistic. So why does this version seem better to you?
 
The balls helped. This version dropped them.

I think the balls look sillier than vents or whatever those are.

It doesn't have wheels; emergency landing doesn't need a runway.

I can only assume you didn't watch Star Trek V. A VTOL shuttle just crashes into the shuttle bay. I'm sure Kirk would've prefered a bit of a longer runway. Do you think emergency landings are done vertically when you're coming in hot?

I think I'm allowed.

Am I not allowed to discuss your opinions and statements?

Please tell me why we're doing this line by line, if we're not saying anything.

What do you mean? I find it more efficient to address each argument or point individually. And you didn't answer me: are you joking about the penis comment?

Except in comm range? No. Communicators were subspace transceivers, as established in "Mudd's Women" (when Harry called the miners). That more than just changes the range, that involves interactions that don't even exist in the real world.

That is completely irrelevant. The only thing that matters is what they do. You can claim that they are a transdimensional graviton-tachyon wormhole communication device but if all they do is allow communication up to 50,000km they're just a communicator.

I'm talking about the capabilities of these devices, not the Technical Manual explanation of their functioning.

A modern day tablet is a consumer device.

So's the PADD, and in any event what does this have to do with anything? Again, people are trying to find excuses to justify why the show looks quaint by our technological standards. What's the point of doing that?

And beyond "understood," it was explicit that they served as tracking devices... they were used that way to locate people for beam-up time and again!

Yeah but that varies from episode to episode. Even without one's communicator sometimes they just knew where the characters were. Trek was never very consistent about it, but then... a smartphone is also a tracking device, so it's not like the communicator has an extra function.
 
But take another example: the PADD. Clearly it has civilian applications but for some reason we see characters with loads of them rather than a single one with all of the data and apps on it. We have that today.
That is just to visually communicate that the character is overworked. And I don't think it is really that unrealistic either. I often do one thing on a pad, while watching something from a the computer while occasionally checking things from my phone. If iPads were free and you could have as many as you liked, many people probably would use several while working.

And this whole discussion is dull any way. Some people are not happy until people in Star Trek are playing Pokemón Go with their iTricorders. Trying to put modern tech trends in a show set centuries in future will soon look dated any way. Technology in Star Trek works in certain way, that's it. It is not realistic. There will never be FTL travel, there will be no transporters, there will be no humanoid aliens, instead everything will be completely handled by computers and humans will have nothing interesting to do. If you try to project realistic development of technology, you will not have Star Trek.
 
I'm referring to the balls at the back of the nacelles, not the Bussard Collectors (the red balls at the front). They were additions added to the ship after the pilot, when the ship looked more Captain Proton-y.
I am talking about the rear
 
That is completely irrelevant. The only thing that matters is what they do. You can claim that they are a transdimensional graviton-tachyon wormhole communication device but if all they do is allow communication up to 50,000km they're just a communicator.

I'm talking about the capabilities of these devices, not the Technical Manual explanation of their functioning.
If you're talking about capabilities, then no.

There's no road map for how big an FTL walkie-talkie has to be, or how small it can be made. The idea that in the future they can be, say, thumbnail-sized is just as absurd as the idea that, no, on the other hand they must be at least palm-sized.

Conversely, both propositions are equally believable. Which way the production design goes depends upon the aesthetic that the creators want to present, which is also a function of what the audience will find believable. From a show-making perspective, that's the important thing here.

But the idea that what the audience finds believable has a bearing on how things could be in the actual future, let's just say that that's not the only factor. Communicators in the future might end up being bulky compared to our iPhones, precisely because in fact they are more capable [ETA: by which I mean, communicators have capabilities that iPhones lack; no doubt iPhones have capabilities that communicators lack as well].
 
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A TOS communicator is mil-spec and close to indestructible.it also might not be state of the art,but highly reliable for EM and subspace communications. The same for locations.
 
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