TOS Klingons had ridges!
- Thread starter WarpFactorZ
- Start date
Well they also had Shakespeare so who knows? 
JB
JB
Well they also had Shakespeare so who knows?
JB
Shakespearian Characters had Klingon hair, so who knows?
I mostly like post-TOS (and pre-DIS) Klingons, though it true they kinda got flanderised at some point. However, most of that happens in DS9 (which had some great Klingon episodes too) and not in TNG. In TNG Klingons used melee weapon for hunting and ritual comat, in DS9 they ran with knives in actual battle where the other side was using rayguns; in TNG the leader of the High Council was chosen by a ritual duel, after a lengthy political process where the nominees jockeyed for the position, in DS9 it seemed that anyone could challenge the Chancellor at any moment and if victorious, claim the top job. One has to wonder why neither Duras or Gowron challenged K'mpec, unless he was way more fearsome than he looked, it should have been an easy victory for either of the younger Klingons.
Oh, and those people saying that Klingons talk about honour but act dishonourably. Klingon honour is more about the face and glory, it is more like ancient Greek kleos than modern western honour.
Oh, and those people saying that Klingons talk about honour but act dishonourably. Klingon honour is more about the face and glory, it is more like ancient Greek kleos than modern western honour.
You're forgetting the challenger to Gowron in the fifth season premiere, "Redemption, part II". He clearly attempted to take the top spot by killing Gowron. He would have had a decent chance at it, too, if Worf hadn't gotten in the way.
I had vague feeling that something like happened in TNG too, but couldn't place it. I only remembered Worf doing it in DS9. Thanks.
In any case, it doesn't make sense. In 'Reunion' there seems to be rigid and pretty logical (if barbaric by our standards) system in place. If insta challenge as depicted later would be possible, the actions of Gowron and Duras in that episode are nonsensical. Furthermore, as system of government where anyone could oust the leader at any moment by beating them in personal combat is not fit for governing anything more complex than a pack of apes.
C
C57D
Guest
I totally get that what is seen to be honourable varies between different sentient species across the universe.
For me it was the TNG+ Klingons just don't ever seem to shut up about it. It feels like every second word is "honour", accompanied by a round of head butting.
Colour me bored !!!
Definitely not true. In fact, the exact opposite has been mentioned in a wide variety of sources. For instance, quoting DSC's Art Director from a 2017 panel appearance:
"We also sought not just the have fine looking architecture but also details that spoke to the history and the culture of the Klingon race and as a touchstone we look to the Star Trek novel The Final Reflection by John M. Ford which was a work that was used as a launching off point thematically for the Klingons by Bryan Fuller."
Besides, I think it's pretty clear that when C57D referred to Trek taking a different direction with the Klingons, he wasn't just referring to DSC, he meant all the way back to TNG. At which point (1987), The Final Reflection was a three-year-old book... and one of the most highly regarded Trek novels at the time, as famous for its treatment of the Klingons as Diane Duane's My Enemy, My Ally was for its treatment of the Romulans. There's no way the TNG writers and producers could have been unaware of these books; they deliberately chose to go a different direction with both of those races. And IMHO, that's a damn shame. The book versions are simply better.
I keep seeing people around these forums post this, and it baffles me, because this was literally not the attitude of even one single Trek fan I knew at the time. People talked about this stuff. Fan publications were full of theories about the different styles of Klingons, as were official licensed works like Ford's novel, the FASA RPG, DC's comics and graphic novels, and others. For my part, I was decidedly gratified when ENT finally settled 26 years of unresolved speculation.
I wonder why the Klingon uniform was abandoned after TOS? They could have just become turtleheads in that golden pants and the black fatigues and grey tank tops surely? In the ENT premiere I did notice a Klingon wearing the much later conquistador style of uniform as seen in the films and TNG/DS9 but that didn't make much sense unless it was another branch of their service!
JB
JB
It makes sense from the studio's POV, though. Why open yourself up to potential liability if Diane Duane or John Ford suddenly started complaining about televised Trek using their concepts without any further compensation? I'm sure that they both had some clause in their book contracts saying that any concepts they introduced in their novels were the property of Paramount, but if you're the studio, why take that chance when you can just say to the episode writer, "Go ahead, come up with something different"?
Probably just because they thought it wasn't in the same league as their new Klingon makeup, and they wanted to revamp their whole look all at once. But I bet they could have used the TOS uniforms if they really wanted to. I believe that at least some elements of the TOS-style Klingon uniforms used in DS9's "Trials and Tribble-ations" were pulled from storage.
Really? Because I own The Final Reflection and have read it many times. And there isn't a single thing about the DSC Klingons that matches the Klingons in that book. So that sounds like a lot of BS to me (the alleged quote above from the art director, not you personally.) You know, like the BS about the show taking place in the prime timeline...
FASA had the idea about Klingon-human "fusions," but the fans of Star Trek that actually knew anything about the RPGs, the novels, the comics, etc. was a small percentage of the total amount of ST fans.
I pretty much agree about this. Aside from the mention of the Black Fleet, there weren't any callbacks I noticed. They gave the book lip service, but I get the impression that the idea of using it as a cultural touchpoint disappeared when Fuller did. However, the lip service itself clearly debunks the notion that they weren't aware of it.
Well, it was probably a small percentage of viewers. I think it was a pretty high percentage of fans.
Same reason they abandoned the jumpers and black pants for Starfleet. Big screen production values. Everything was redesigned.
I'm not seeing any conquistadors in the Broken Bow. The Klingons there seem to be sporting leather and furs.
I think it was during the bits where they went down to some planet with a lot of aliens and the like and I think I saw a Klingon in the distance beyond the market place! I don't own the episode so cannot check, sorry!
JB
JB
I did spot what looks like a Klingon is the screen caps, but it's hard to tell what he's wearing or if he's actually a he.
