Babylon 5

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Byron and his followers are annoying and that is likely deliberate. I wanted to feel sympathy with the rogue teeps but their behaviour tended to make me loathe them nearly as much as Psi Corps. The rogue teeps didn't deserve their fate - Psi Corps did. The arc is a bit of a grind to sit through on repeat viewing, however.

 

[Triple-F]

Am I the only one who gets annoyed at people pre-emptively trying to ruin other people's enjoyment? Obviously this posted didn't care at all about Londo and G'kar or they'd never have said anything so silly.

Annoyed? No.

Folks express opinions all the time. . . . . Season 2 was better than 1. Season 3 was incredible while season 4 was outstanding and the fifth pretty much sucked. . . . . It’s just expressing a general opinion about a season without going into specifics – you might not agree with it, but it’s no different than saying something like ‘if you liked the third season you’ll love the fourth”. Should we get annoyed that saying something like that could build up someone’s expectations for the fourth season. ; )

 

[DonIago]

Honestly, anyone who'd skip a season of a TV show just because one person on a forum said they should probably wasn't enjoying the show that much to begin with.

 

[Forbin]

Do. Not. Skip. ANYthing.

Yeah, nobody liked the teep arc, but that was just the one arc. It was over soon enough.

 

[DonIago]

And, this being B5 and all, while that stuff is often (though not always) the A-story, JMS is moving around pieces for the stories to follow.

 

[Butters]

The telepath colony has just arrived on B5, on the tv. That Byron, how did the thug tire of punching him in the mouth? I could’ve gone all night, were I violent, and could throw a punch, but it’s the thought that counts. It was a weak arc to be sure.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Byron and his followers are annoying and that is likely deliberate. I wanted to feel sympathy with the rogue teeps but their behaviour tended to make me loathe them nearly as much as Psi Corps. The rogue teeps didn't deserve their fate - Psi Corps did. The arc is a bit of a grind to sit through on repeat viewing, however.

Agreed. For me the telepath issue was very understandable and the B5 world's attitude to them a likely outcome if such a thing was real. I can't imagine a power like that being trusted by the general public. The first season's use was well done with the underground railway and all. Dropping those issues and seeing Lyta not having a great deal of trouble, relatively speaking, made the station folk's dropping her like a hot potato in s5 seem wtf.

The rogue telepaths were believable in their anger toward the normals but it did nothing to garner any sympathy because Byron was just Bester-lite. Moreover, the racism telepaths faced really had fallen into the background and we just saw Lyta as part of the B5 team. Having Lyta abruptly be treated like a pariah, which was what telepaths faced in s1 but was left aside for the Shadow War/Clark story, just made no sense. At the very least she could have gone to Delenn and the Minbari, as she'd done a couple of times before, but that never occurred to her for some reason. Having her drinking the Byron Kool-Aid was just an insult to an intelligent character who had a bigger view of things thanks to the Vorlons.

I am guessing, had Ivanova been available, she'd have been the sympathetic one to Byron and her latent telepath backstory might have played into another doomed attraction for her. JMS seems to love that shit. She had an underground railroad of her own for the Narn refuges. Her hatred of Psicorp it would be natural for her to use that for telepaths as well. Lyta might have just decided to take up the cause after the Byron escapade as a Vorlon countermeasure to an experiment gone wrong so far as Psi-Corp controlling the telepaths was concerned.

 

[MacLeod]

I think part of the problem with the telepath arc in S5 is that is was never mend to be so long, JMS did think he was going to get a S5 so had to wrap up the major arcs at the time i.e. the Earth civil war in S4. Had they got an earlier renewal for S5, S4 would have ended with "Intersections in Real Time" and concluded the Earth civil war in S5.

 

[DeepSpaceYorks]

I am guessing, had Ivanova been available, she'd have been the sympathetic one to Byron and her latent telepath backstory might have played into another doomed attraction for her. JMS seems to love that shit. She had an underground railroad of her own for the Narn refuges. Her hatred of Psicorp it would be natural for her to use that for telepaths as well. Lyta might have just decided to take up the cause after the Byron escapade as a Vorlon countermeasure to an experiment gone wrong so far as Psi-Corp controlling the telepaths was concerned.

If my memory serves me right this was JMS original intention.
I saw that 1st ep of season 5 on TV this week for the first time since first broadcast and it was worse than I remembered. I was such a die-hard B5 fan during seasons 1-4, member of the UK fanclub, going to cons, but they threw it all away for me. I have never, ever been so disappointed with a show as I was, and still am with B5 season 5. It gives me pain to even think about the show now, I quite honestly find it very hard to enjoy any of it. Like my soul mate dumped me in the most hurtful way imaginable, I'm still not over it.

 

[Farscape One]

Yeah, originally it was Ivanova who would do what Lyta did, essentially, in that arc.

One thing I always found brilliant was how he had a trapdoor, as he called it, for every single character in case things happen during production. He was quite aware that tv production was rife with issues that can easily end actors days on a show, whether it be a firing by the network, quitting, death, or any number of reasons.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

I don't really see the Byron arc would hae worked that well with Ivanova instead of Lyta. She could well appear to be using him as atonement for her rejection of Marcus, who sacrificed his life to save hers - too conveniently, Byron was also English-accented and long-haired. I prefer that she became the reserved, buttoned-up military commander. She would have likely have been thrown out of the military and disgraced for siding with Byron. The Vorlon connection with the existance of human telepathy and Psi Corps just seemed too strong not to involve Lyta - to me, anyway.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Trapdoors are fine but I wish he hadn't saddled Lyta with that romance angle. Having her get into that with Byron just made her look like some kind of sheeple. Same for Ivanova as per @Asbo Zaprudder

 

[Forbin]

On the other hand, I really like Pat Tallman, and I'm really happy she got a lot of screen time in season 5.

 

[Jan]

I think part of the problem with the telepath arc in S5 is that is was never mend to be so long, JMS did think he was going to get a S5 so had to wrap up the major arcs at the time i.e. the Earth civil war in S4. Had they got an earlier renewal for S5, S4 would have ended with "Intersections in Real Time" and concluded the Earth civil war in S5.

It was and it wasn't. If the show hadn't been cancelled, the telepath arc would have been able to start earlier and more organically instead of there suddenly being a bunch of them suddenly just there. Plus, if Ivanova had been around, it would have been she who was romantically involved with Byron with Lyta a devoted follower. So Lyta would still have been molded into the resistance leader she needed to become but the idea of Ivanova being forced to call in Bester on the telepaths, given her hatred of him and her status as a latent telepath herself would have been great drama.

If I have a quibble with B5 characters, it's that there were so darned many martyrs looking for a place to die. Sinclair. Byron. Marcus. Lennier at the end.

 

[Gov Kodos]

It was and it wasn't. If the show hadn't been cancelled, the telepath arc would have been able to start earlier and more organically instead of there suddenly being a bunch of them suddenly just there. Plus, if Ivanova had been around, it would have been she who was romantically involved with Byron with Lyta a devoted follower. So Lyta would still have been molded into the resistance leader she needed to become but the idea of Ivanova being forced to call in Bester on the telepaths, given her hatred of him and her status as a latent telepath herself would have been great drama.

If I have a quibble with B5 characters, it's that there were so darned many martyrs looking for a place to die. Sinclair. Byron. Marcus. Lennier at the end.

There were quite a few. The Vorlons needed more inquisitors for those clowns.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Am I the only one who gets annoyed at people pre-emptively trying to ruin other people's enjoyment? Obviously this posted didn't care at all about Londo and G'kar or they'd never have said anything so silly.

Eh, we all give recommendations and warnings. People will make up their own minds.

Byron and his followers are annoying and that is likely deliberate. I wanted to feel sympathy with the rogue teeps but their behaviour tended to make me loathe them nearly as much as Psi Corps. The rogue teeps didn't deserve their fate - Psi Corps did. The arc is a bit of a grind to sit through on repeat viewing, however.

Byron's unlikeability was definitely deliberate. And that plot turned out to be as prophetic as both the Earth Civil War and the Shadow War.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

It's a shame that the Bester vs. Garibaldi episode was never filmed for Crusade. In fact, it's also a pity to me that we never got five years of Crusade. It would have finished its run 14-years ago now! At least I have the three trilogies (Centauri, Technomage, and Psi Corps) plus the other two main canon novels ("The Shadow Within" and "To Dream in the City of Sorrows").

 

[Jan]

It's a shame that the Bester vs. Garibaldi episode was never filmed for Crusade. In fact, it's also a pity to me that we never got five years of Crusade.

"Value Judgements" wasn't a Bester vs Garibaldi episode, I'm afraid. More of a Bester vs Matheson episode, really. The only part with 'Garibaldi' was to be the back of a head and a report that Bester had gotten away.

BTW, in case folks here will be attending either San Diego Comic-Con or WorldCon this year, I've applied to do '25 Years of Babylon 5' panels at them. It'll be a while until I know whether they're approved or not. While I'm figuring on the panels being pretty general, any ideas of points to bring up that made the show special to you would be appreciated. Also, while I've got co-panelists for WorldCon, I'm still interested in finding a couple of other people to join me in the front of the room at SDCC. (we now return to our regularly scheduled programming...)

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

"Value Judgements" wasn't a Bester vs Garibaldi episode, I'm afraid. More of a Bester vs Matheson episode, really. The only part with 'Garibaldi' was to be the back of a head and a report that Bester had gotten away.

Ah, right, I never got chance to read the unfilmed scripts so I was likely mislead by inaccurate online reports or by my faulty memory.

My main choice of theme to take from B5 would be the long, twilight struggle (originally, a JFK-inauguration quote, I believe), which seems to be topical given the state of world and various domestic politics.

 

[Farscape One]

"Value Judgements" wasn't a Bester vs Garibaldi episode, I'm afraid. More of a Bester vs Matheson episode, really. The only part with 'Garibaldi' was to be the back of a head and a report that Bester had gotten away.

BTW, in case folks here will be attending either San Diego Comic-Con or WorldCon this year, I've applied to do '25 Years of Babylon 5' panels at them. It'll be a while until I know whether they're approved or not. While I'm figuring on the panels being pretty general, any ideas of points to bring up that made the show special to you would be appreciated. Also, while I've got co-panelists for WorldCon, I'm still interested in finding a couple of other people to join me in the front of the room at SDCC. (we now return to our regularly scheduled programming...)

This may sound like something that has been addressed, but why not a panel on why B5 fans and DS9 fans, in general, seem to be in an either/or mentality instead of being fans of both series at the same time, and being equally passionate about them. Or something along those lines.