Existing species vs. "aliens of the week"

[The Wormhole]

But a majority of the episodes do have them charting new space, especially early in the series.

Not really. Just go through the episodes of TOS or TNG, and the ones that actually involve "charting new space" are a minority.

Dude, it's in the mission statement of the title sequence of the 1st two shows. I could see a show based on that opening speech, that doesn't include anything at all about internal politics. I'm glad that they did include that stuff, but it is easily not what they had envisioned as the primary goal.

It may be the "mission statement" but it's hardly what the show is really about. Even saying it was what was "originally envisioned" isn't strictly accurate. Indeed, out of the 29 ten episodes which don't feature any alien lifeforms at all other than Spock. Or nine, depending on whether one considers the Guardian of Forever a "lifeform" or not. These episodes include three which feature very minimal sci-fi elements (Mudd's Women is basically about human trafficking and drug use,The Conscience of the King is basically a murder-mystery, while Court-Martial is typical courtroom drama) and two which are time travel stories set on twentieth century Earth.

 

[Mojochi]

It may be the "mission statement" but it's hardly what the show is really about. Even saying it was what was "originally envisioned" isn't strictly accurate. Indeed, out of the 29 ten episodes which don't feature any alien lifeforms at all other than Spock. Or nine, depending on whether one considers the Guardian of Forever a "lifeform" or not. These episodes include three which do not feature very minimal sci-fi elements (Mudd's Women is basically about human trafficking and drug use,The Conscience of the King is basically a murder-mystery, while Court-Martial is typical courtroom drama) and two which are time travel stories set on twentieth century Earth.

This confuses me. On one hand you say the show doesn't have enough stories that revolve around humans, instead of weakly concocted aliens of the week, but on the other, you just pointed out that not much of the show actually does that.

I have literally never seen anyone argue that the show isn't what the show says it is. That's like saying Lost In Space isn't about being lost in space, because they don't spend as much time being lost as they do other stuff. They trek the stars, the purpose of which is to seek out new life forms. That they do other stuff & the percentages thereof is immaterial. The premise is that of space explorers, whose charter is contacting alien life. Thus, it's pretty reasonable that they'd expect writers to present their stories from that perspective, such that the peoples they deal with be frequently alien

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Not really. Just go through the episodes of TOS or TNG, and the ones that actually involve "charting new space" are a minority.

Depends on what your standard is for judging an episode as 'Charting new space'. There's lots of episodes where they are remote deployed and they're making diplomatic talks with a newly discovered species, or being good samaritans to some random aliens or colony they just met.

And even when they aren't in undiscovered place, they are still far out deployed and constantly moving around. Their usual missions are diplomatic or scientific, and I think if you really counted, they outnumber the number of episodes that are about getting called in to familiar species when they are best suited to prevent a war. They might not be the first ship in a particular area of space, but they're probably negotiating a new treaty with a world just recently discovered. Or charting a nebula they knew existed but have not mapped out. Or on a rescue mission for another ship that was in a nearby region of remote space.

Let me ask you something, would you WANT the ship to be revisiting the same races every week? You might want a better variety of makeup and all around greater variety of aliens. That's DS9's job and its mission statement, the core Federation politics. It's not TNG's job.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I think that using a story headcount as evidence that the show isn't about exploration is a case of not seeing the forest for the trees. If the Enterprise is engaged in other duties like patrolling, supporting colonies, rescue missions, etc., it's because they're the only ones out there to do it. It's a frontier setting, the exploration angle is implicit in the premise.

 

[The Wormhole]

Let me ask you something, would you WANT the ship to be revisiting the same races every week?

Why not? If you're just going to recycle the same ship models, props and costumes, why not just make it the same race as opposed to a bunch of different races who are only seen once and disappear? Hell, it got downright silly at times on TNG when they'd say "design doesn't match anything in our database" and it turns out to be that stupid triangle ship everyone uses.

 

[BillJ]

They trek the stars, the purpose of which is to seek out new life forms. That they do other stuff & the percentages thereof is immaterial. The premise is that of space explorers, whose charter is contacting alien life.

The theme song and the show didn't match up all that often. The first regular episode aired, "The Man Trap", was about them doing routine physicals on archeologists. Many of the early episodes were about them transferring supplies or following up on someone else mission.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Why not? If you're just going to recycle the same ship models, props and costumes, why not just make it the same race as opposed to a bunch of different races who are only seen once and disappear? Hell, it got downright silly at times on TNG when they'd say "design doesn't match anything in our database" and it turns out to be that stupid triangle ship everyone uses.

So you're saying, if there were 20 more episodes exploring the peculiarities of Klingon honor, you'd consider this a positive change?

"Captain's Log, we are in week 40 of just circling around the Rigel system, and we are running into Rigellians yet again. This time we have come in the middle of a dispute over their agricultural procurement law."

You prescribe to me a very boring, repetitive series.

Your criticism of reusing the same ships is solved by just having more variety of alien makeup and ship design. Your solution to "There wasn't enough variety in aliens" is "There should be even less variety in aliens".

 

[JirinPanthosa]

And just so we're absolutely clear here, are you saying that if you were on the Orville writing staff, you would stand up in the planning meeting and say "No way next season can have any fewer than 10 episodes about the Krill!"

 

[The Wormhole]

Your criticism of reusing the same ships is solved by just having more variety of alien makeup and ship design. Your solution to "There wasn't enough variety in aliens" is "There should be even less variety in aliens".

Except the main reason we end up with everything recycled is because of budget. They save money re-using ships, props, and so on. The writers know this, so knowing things are going to be recycled anyway, why not just bring back the race these ships, costumes and what not were being used by? And if the aliens are going to be exactly human looking, or near human with a funny bump, why make them alien? Why not human?

And just so we're absolutely clear here, are you saying that if you were on the Orville writing staff, you would stand up in the planning meeting and say "No way next season can have any fewer than 10 episodes about the Krill!"

This thread isn't about The Orville. What goes on there, and what I would do if I were on its writing staff has no bearing on this discussion. And as Orville fans are already being criticized on this forum for bringing up the show in threads completely unrelated to it, I see no reason why you would engage in this behaviour.

 

[Mojochi]

Because people tuned into a show called Star Trek, for a weekly fantasy about space exploration, & granted, that was a vehicle to do multitudes of other kinds of stories, seemingly unrelated, but all of them are built on the premise of space explorers, & what happens to them in this fictional future

So what, the budget made them cut some corners, reuse stuff? Mako played no less than 4 different Korean guys on M*A*S*H, & the dude ain't even Korean. They reused actors, sets, even stories frequently. Hell, in 11 years & over 250 episodes, the mash unit only had to bug out 4 times, & the show was called M*A*S*H. That was the nature of tv then, but no one would suggest that show isn't about a mobile army surgical hospital

 

[BillJ]

And just so we're absolutely clear here, are you saying that if you were on the Orville writing staff, you would stand up in the planning meeting and say "No way next season can have any fewer than 10 episodes about the Krill!"

It is a different production environment now than it was in the 90's. Less episodes, with more lead time to produce them.

Apple vs. Orange.

 

[Shawnster]

So you're saying, if there were 20 more episodes exploring the peculiarities of Klingon honor, you'd consider this a positive change?

"Captain's Log, we are in week 40 of just circling around the Rigel system, and we are running into Rigellians yet again. This time we have come in the middle of a dispute over their agricultural procurement law."

You prescribe to me a very boring, repetitive series.

Your criticism of reusing the same ships is solved by just having more variety of alien makeup and ship design. Your solution to "There wasn't enough variety in aliens" is "There should be even less variety in aliens".

That wasn't my intention. My intention was to use fewer aliens of the week. Use a previously established alien of the week or a more major species. The result would be greater development development of established species instead of yet another cookie cutter species for no reason.

Instead of 100 one-shot aliens of the week, there are 25 or 50 more developed species.

I'm not talking 40 weeks of Klingon intrigue.

Like I said with Timicin on "Half a Life." Nothing in the episode requires Timicin to be a new alien. He could have been Deltan or Andorian. Naussican. Granted, Luxwana might not have fallen in love with a Naussican.

Aquiel. She definitely would have worked as a Deltan. Or Argelian from TOS (unless Argelius was a human colony)

Or Aquiel could have been Lumerian, the ambassador's species from "Man of the People." there is a second species of the week right there. Both have limited telepathic powers.

 

[Mojochi]

That wasn't my intention. My intention was to use fewer aliens of the week. Use a previously established alien of the week or a more major species. The result would be greater development development of established species instead of yet another cookie cutter species for no reason.

Instead of 100 one-shot aliens of the week, there are 25 or 50 more developed species.

I'm not talking 40 weeks of Klingon intrigue.

Like I said with Timicin on "Half a Life." Nothing in the episode requires Timicin to be a new alien. He could have been Deltan or Andorian. Naussican. Granted, Luxwana might not have fallen in love with a Naussican.

Aquiel. She definitely would have worked as a Deltan. Or Argelian from TOS (unless Argelius was a human colony)

Or Aquiel could have been Lumerian, the ambassador's species from "Man of the People." there is a second species of the week right there. Both have limited telepathic powers.

You're expecting the writers to be as dedicated to the canon as the fan base, & that's never going to happen. In fact, it's in their best interest to work outside the canon as much as they can, because they can avoid overlapping missteps. No writer is going to fish through countless hours of the franchise's productions, to make sure they aren't placing a new dynamic onto an old property that conflicts

This fan base scrutinizes every minute canon detail, especially those ones that conflict. Who wants to deal with that? That pink Klingon blood guy must've heard about that crap endlessly. Aquiel could've been Lumerian, but as they did with Vash, god forbid they ever wanted to use that character again, & now they have to factor in possible telepathy conflicts, or established culture stuff. It's too much work for a writer just hatching an episode of a show

These are people who don't even want to be required to observe an alien race's physical features (i.e. TNG Trills) It's too much in-universe quagmire to use established things. It's simpler to just make more

 

[Marynator]

My main feeling on this issue is that having a larger number of alien species, even if they are weakly developed, makes space seem larger. I like the idea that there are hundreds and thousands of inhabited worlds in the known galaxy each with its own civilization. Even if each of those cultures is only seen once and we focus on a single major aspect of them for the sake of the story, at least it is something new (even if they look 95% human!). If we only saw the same half dozen peoples over and over, I feel it would make the universe seem very small and limited.

I believe the happy medium is to mostly use new aliens for the most part, with occasional episodes spread out for the major nations (which is what they did on the show). That way we do get to see some developing stories at a natural pace, but also can have that sense of wonder most of the time at meeting something new (isn't the fresh aspect the best part after all?).

 

[Rahul]

I'm all for re-using the same 'aliens of the week' for multiple episodes. Because they often require the aliens wo be, well, aliens. But Ithink it's ridiculous to see a new species for one episode and then never seeing them again.

Like, couldn't the aliens of "The vengeance factor", "The Hunted" and "The high ground" not all be colonies of the same alien species? Would have even allowed them to create a more complex and convincing make-up for this species as well, since it would have been re-used a few times.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Star Trek should build on the races they already have in the can, rather than making a totally new one, both in episodes where they feature prominently as well as in the background. The TOS movies did a great job of expanding the Federation beyond simply humans and Vulcans, giving us the Aaamazzaite, Arcadians, Ariolo, Arkenite, Betelgeusians, Deltans, Efrosians, K'Normaian, Kazarite, Megarite, Rigellian-Chelon, Saurians, Shamin and Zaranite to name a few, most of which were blink and you'll miss it appearances but all could be expanded upon and developed in new and wonderful ways.

 

[STEPhon IT]

I'd rather aliens of the week than the existing aliens because new writers seem to not care about researching the existing ones, but rather re-invent them. Re-inventing is like creating something new, might as well simply make them new and branch out from there. None of those updates of the existing aliens I've accepted; all them felt off and I really get upset when they desperately try to imply what was done from TOS was all wrong.

 

[Shawnster]

You're expecting the writers to be as dedicated to the canon as the fan base, & that's never going to happen.

While I know it will never happen, it's not an inconceivable proposal by any means. The Start Trek Encyclopedia was our is pretty accessible and so is Memory Alpha.

Production for season 2 of DISCO starts next month. Now is a good time to to say for season 3 no new aliens. Use the research tools at our disposal and find a current species that fits your needs. Shouldn't take more than a few minutes.

 

[STEPhon IT]

You're expecting the writers to be as dedicated to the canon as the fan base, & that's never going to happen. In fact, it's in their best interest to work outside the canon as much as they can, because they can avoid overlapping missteps.

The writers and producers just need to get their heads out of their asses. Just look at the existing Star Trek aliens as a platform of where they--the writers and producers-- live... on Earth. There are multi-cultural people all over the planet with different blood types and ethnicity. I've never understood why the modern Trek aliens needed to be clones from one another instead of having individuality like in TOS?

How racist it would be, hypothetically, if an alien from outer space came to Earth and asked why black people have brown skin and have O negative blood? And the representatives said it's an Earth secret to later learn it was a virus that made them that way???

Again, Star Trek Fans were smart enough back then to simply accept what was seen on screen. Devised their own rational explanations of the species and moved on because we lived in a diverse reality, but Fans turned Pro found that to be a problem and start making up lies that most fans had a problem with it. Klingons with pink blood??? "Oh, it's because the MPAA would give the film an R rating or NC-17 so the director turned it from red to pink." Not true. Read Nicholas Meyer's book, "The View from the Bridge".

Klingons looked like humans??? "Oh, it was-was-was because of the budget." Lies. TOS had species with prosthetics all the time on the series; if the Klingons were originally meant to have extensive make-up they would've had them. All the werewolf bullshit was an after thought. Now on Discovery they're more monstrous, and blacker than ever; I wonder what kind of explanation the Reeves-Stevens can dump on our heads now? "Uh, uh the Klingons from Enterprise had... space AIDS or Ko-CHAH fever where it makes the complexion turn from black to brown."

All this stuff were issues they had with the original source material, from 1966, and not what was coming from fans. They never listen to the fans, it's not in their character to do so.

 

[apepa]

From an IRL perspective, there's historically been a lot of pull from the studio or network to make things easier on casual viewers by limiting the amount of recurring elements. It's almost the opposite of how TV is treated nowadays.