Roddenberry calls Wrath embarrassing

[F. King Daniel]

Courtesy of the Trek Files podcast, a two-page letter from Gene Roddenberry to Gary Nardino regarding the Wrath of Khan script.[/I] Google Drive link to the letter

Kind of amazing to read Roddenberry's words that Harve Bennett wasn't up to writing science fiction. I must admit though, I do actually agree regarding Spock, the half-Vulcan who acts double-Vulcan, getting such a human funeral.

 

[BillJ]

I must admit though, I do actually agree regarding Spock, the half-Vulcan who acts double-Vulcan, getting such a human funeral.

He was getting a military funeral. Not sure I see the issue?

 

[BigDaveX]

I must admit though, I do actually agree regarding Spock, the half-Vulcan who acts double-Vulcan, getting such a human funeral.

Well, let's be fair, Spock wasn't really in any condition to be sorting out his funeral arrangements.

In all seriousness, it's kinda funny how basically the entire memo (aside from his comments about the funeral scene) is Roddenberry ranting that the script isn't true Star Trek without actually bothering to explain why. Makes me wonder if he already knew that his feedback was just going to be ignored, and decided to take the chance to blow off some steam.

 

[BillJ]

I think as Roddenberry got older, he had trouble writing material that resonated with the audience. Spock's funeral works, because we've all been to funerals. It is touching because we've all said goodbye to loved one's in a similar manner.

Creating a Vulcan ceremony would've only muddied the emotional hook they were going for.

 

[urbandefault]

GR was just pissed that he didn't get to (re)write the thing.

 

[Jayson1]

GR was just pissed that he didn't get to (re)write the thing.

I agree, Which was a good thing when you read about his behavior on "TMP" which is the main reason he ended up having nothing to do with any of the following movies.

Jason

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

I think as Roddenberry got older, he had trouble writing material that resonated with the audience. Spock's funeral works, because we've all been to funerals. It is touching because we've all said goodbye to loved one's in a similar manner.

Creating a Vulcan ceremony would've only muddied the emotional hook they were going for.

Also, unless it's specified in some way exactly the funeral people wanted, the service is often more for those saying goodbye to someone so they will go with what seems most fitting. For Spock who was a Starfleet officer all his adult life, died in service saving others then a military funeral with his body being sent out into space is very fitting.

 

[Jayson1]

How do we know that Spock didn't approve of this kind of funeral? That kind of stuff could have been listed in his personal logs or files. It was better than Kirk got. Just left on top of some mountain on a planet with no people and covered in loose rocks though you got to admire Picards work effort. Draging a dead body up that kind of climb would be hard. Not to mention you got to get him out from underneath the fallen bridge.

Jason

 

[Daddy Todd]

That memo is dated April 17th, 1981. According to Memory Alpha, shooting didn’t start until November, 1981, seven months later. Roddenberry is hating on a screenplay that the producers themselves concluded was no good. Peeples was brought in for a draft after this, which was also rejected. It wasn’t until Meyer wrote his uncredited draft that they had a shootable script.

So, while the memo makes Gene’s agenda seem nakedly clear (and self-serving) — “Let ME write it!!” — he was right that the script wasn’t good.

 

[Commishsleer]

Courtesy of the Trek Files podcast, a two-page letter from Gene Roddenberry to Gary Nardino regarding the Wrath of Khan script.[/I] Google Drive link to the letter

Kind of amazing to read Roddenberry's words that Harve Bennett wasn't up to writing science fiction. I must admit though, I do actually agree regarding Spock, the half-Vulcan who acts double-Vulcan, getting such a human funeral.

I have friends who also think "Amazing Grace" was a terrible thing to play at a Vulcan;s funeral.
I disagree and think it was a great choice. Wasn't part of TWOK about Spock accepting himself, his human half. TWOK is littered with examples of Spock's (In can't think of a better way of saying this - I mean something between love and affection so I'm going to say) fondness for Kirk, McCoy, Saavik, the Enterprise, his crew.

Spock once was lost but now was found, was blind but now he sees. Spock accepted himself in TWOK, his friendships, his duties and responsibilities as a Starfleet Captain just like the hymn literally says.

Shatner was so great in the funeral scene. One of the greatest movie scenes in Star Trek IMO.

I don't care that it wasn't Vulcan enough. Spock didn't owe Vulcan anything. Funerals are not really for the dead. They are for the survivors. This is the way his friends (and real family) showed their respect to Spock

 

[DonIago]

Isn't Gene hating on Spock's being "human" in TWOK a bit hypocritical if one considers that one of the major story arcs of TMP was Spock "rediscovering" his own humanity after failing to achieve Kolinahr? Or did Gene hate on that as well?

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

"Amazing Grace" was for the audience - we're familiar with it, and it brings to mind solemn occasions for some. Plus, it was a song Scotty knew how to play. It's his contribution to the ceremony, his gesture of friendship.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I honestly don't care very much what Roddenberry thought of TWOK. I'm sure a lot of his criticisms stemmed from resentment and jealousy that Trek had basically been taken away from him at that point (which I totally understand, BTW. I'd probably feel the same way in his shoes).

But bottom line, I know that I love TWOK, and I feel that it's a lot closer to the essence of TOS than what Roddenberry himself had been able to do only a few years earlier.

 

[pfontaine2]

"Amazing Grace" was for the audience - we're familiar with it, and it brings to mind solemn occasions for some. Plus, it was a song Scotty knew how to play. It's his contribution to the ceremony, his gesture of friendship.

I like to think that Amazing Grace was Scotty's personal contribution to the event. He was dressed formally and the hymn was his personal way of saying "goodbye". I'd imagine he would have asked Kirk for permission but clearly everyone understood the need to be uplifted by the hymn after such a tragic and difficult event. It even hints that Scotty had a more introspective side to him which we never saw expressed in the show.

The lyrics resonate as well (even though only the melody was played) because they state "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see". Given Spock's emotional journey in the first film and his emotional maturity in the second, the hymn fits the character. The idea that grace "saved a wretch like me" works because Spock found it so difficult to resolve both halves of his being during the run of the show. It's only after the first film that Spock that his encounter with VGER gives him the enlightenment or "grace" to fully embraces his human side.

Lastly, I like the use of the hymn because it points to something "spiritual", something still yet to be explored if you buy into the idea of life after death. Given the themes of Khan, the Genesis device itself (life from lifelessness) and Spock's self-sacrifice to save his friends, "Amazing Grace" hits the right note for me emotionally.

 

[Galileo7]

Star Trek:The Motion Picture (1979) is my favorite ST film.
I have always wondered if Gene Roddenberry wanted Ilia (Persis Khambatta) in much less than the white robe and high heels, i.e., bikini etc.

 

[Patrick S]

That memo is dated April 17th, 1981. According to Memory Alpha, shooting didn’t start until November, 1981, seven months later. Roddenberry is hating on a screenplay that the producers themselves concluded was no good. Peeples was brought in for a draft after this, which was also rejected. It wasn’t until Meyer wrote his uncredited draft that they had a shootable script.

So, while the memo makes Gene’s agenda seem nakedly clear (and self-serving) — “Let ME write it!!” — he was right that the script wasn’t good.

I was thinking the same thing. I think I read that Nick Meyer pumped out a rewrite in a week (?) and that was essentially what they shot. It sounds like elements of the funeral scene remained intact and I think GR was wrong on that front. The scene worked. I've seen it 100 times and it still has impact.

 

[STEPhon IT]

Well, let's be fair, Spock wasn't really in any condition to be sorting out his funeral arrangements.

In all seriousness, it's kinda funny how basically the entire memo (aside from his comments about the funeral scene) is Roddenberry ranting that the script isn't true Star Trek without actually bothering to explain why. Makes me wonder if he already knew that his feedback was just going to be ignored, and decided to take the chance to blow off some steam.

It's quite sad because before the internet there wasn't a way for Trekfans to investigate who produced or wrote the episodes, who truly gave Star Trek it's soul. Gene Coon was the reason the 1st 2 seasons were spectacular. Back then Fans could only rely on what Roddenberry said, and then he was hailed as the Great Bird thing. Suffering and later truly believing his own hyperbole; he started thinking he created everything Star Trek. When Michael Eisner realized the property was in catastrophic hands with GR at the helm for the movie production, he hit the brakes!

GR's rants were legendary, and it's no secret he was trying to derail the Bennett production at every turn. Revealing Spock's death to the press before production started, and making noises all around the lot to any executive who would bother to listen. He was a thorn and the studio knew it was best to keep him a 100 yards away from Harve Bennett and their production.

GR wanted in because his ego needed it. The comments from him sounded like sour grapes to me, nothing else. Bennett's company had to deal with that shit until his death.

 

[STEPhon IT]

That memo is dated April 17th, 1981. According to Memory Alpha, shooting didn’t start until November, 1981, seven months later. Roddenberry is hating on a screenplay that the producers themselves concluded was no good. Peeples was brought in for a draft after this, which was also rejected. It wasn’t until Meyer wrote his uncredited draft that they had a shootable script.

So, while the memo makes Gene’s agenda seem nakedly clear (and self-serving) — “Let ME write it!!” — he was right that the script wasn’t good.

"Let Dorothy write it... uh... I mean ME!!"

 

[BillJ]

It's quite sad because before the internet there wasn't a way for Trekfans to investigate who produced or wrote the episodes, who truly gave Star Trek it's soul. Gene Coon was the reason the 1st 2 seasons were spectacular.

I love Gene Coon's work on Star Trek, but they hit the ground running before he ever showed up. The real unsung hero of Trek has always been Bob Justman.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Star Trek:The Motion Picture (1979) is my favorite ST film.
I have always wondered if Gene Roddenberry wanted Ilia (Persis Khambatta) in much less than the white robe and high heels, i.e., bikini etc.

I remember reading somewhere that Khambatta was actually hounded to present herself in the shower scene in TMP with Full Frontal Nudity and she was adamantly against that. As we see in the final thing, Khambatta's virtue is left intact for STAR TREK's first theatrical outing.

As for Gene's disdain for TWoK, I suspect he did have genuine creative issues with the direction Nick Meyer was taking the production, but ... Nick basically treated Gene like an interfering outsider and ignored him, for the most part. This, in fact, is what soured Roddenberry on STAR TREK II. It's not my favourite movie, either ... I find it to be a bit thin. But I'll tell ya ... when The Shat slides down that ladder and looks on at Spock's predicament in horror and then has to be held back by 3 of his officers to keep from opening the door to save him ... I get misty. It's embarrassing, OK? I know it's coming ... I know how it resolves itself, eventually ... I know all of those things. And yet ...