Spoilers Walking Dead Season 8 discussion and spoilers.

[TREK_GOD_1]

The Walking Dead--
"Dead or Alive or..."

Eugene's newfound love for getting drunk is meant to sell his trying to bury his guilt, but you would think a guy who cannot really defend himself would be that last to alter his senses to any degree.


I see Dr. Carson's apparent lack of faith has been a winning strategy for him so far.....
Despite finding the radio operator--the victim of suicide--that did not counter Father Gabriel trying to steer Carson away from his "all is screwed" mindset, especially after the dead man left antibiotics--exactly what Father Gabriel needed

...and car keys & the map.
...and Father Gabriel's perfect shot with his impaired vision.

All luck! Yep!

Tara needs to go. Now. The experiment of dragging out her completely undeveloped grief over her equally undeveloped relationship with Denise was a failure. There's no believable sense of her ever having a genuine relationship/loss like Rick and Lori, or Maggie and Glenn, so the entire running sub-plot of her hating / wanting to kill Dwight is based on that nothing relationship. She's just a single-minded ass who has not had much of a purpose since season 4B when she first teamed up with Glenn post-prison.

Wait...her "you don't get to switch sides" from Tara? This is the same woman who believed The Governor's lies about Rick's group being the worst of the worst, and willingly armed herself as part of the attack crew. So, aside from being an ass, she's a hypocrite.

Dwight saved the heroes, but the still missing Laura is the wildcard. I would not be surprised if she shows up at the Hilltop trying to pull off a rescue/revenge mission, unless she shares the comic version's story.

Morgan is still sane by letting Henry believe Gavin was responsible for Benjamin's death.

Maggie letting any prisoners out....like that's not going to go south to set up the season finale.

NOTES:

Finally--the start of using tainted weapons.

I was sort of disappointed that the Hilltop reactions to Carl's death were so brief. Reactions from Enid (obviously) along with Carol & Maggie (knowing Carl for so long) deserves more screen time.

It's been some time since walkers have been a real threat, or showcase on this series. Nice to see.

 

[Ethros]

The show back to normal after the finale/opener episdoes where anything actually happens. I watched this episode in about 15-20 minutes thanks to the fast forward button and positive I didn't miss a thing.

 

[Push The Button]

A little consistent internal logic from the beginning regarding the walker virus would have been nice. Setting aside the absurd notion that dead bodies could still walk, see, hear, and retain a good deal of physical strength and dexterity, while seemingly being sustained by nothing since they no longer need to eat and just do that out of primal instinct ..

According to Dr. Jenner, everyone is already infected. Not sure why being bitten would make a difference if you are already infected, unless a bite inevitably kills you by some other common pathogen first, but this doesn't seem to be what happens. The living are regularly exposed to walker blood and guts on their skin and clothing, sometimes even on their faces, but this by itself does not make them turn, though Gabriel did get seriously ill after being covered but seems to be fighting back.

 

[Starkers]

Well overall I enjoyed that episode more than the previous two, but damn the internal logic of this show is for shit now. It's been clear that it's bites from Walkers that does you in (for some reason) because you're not telling me people don't get scratched by Walkers all the time? And you're not telling me that on those many occasions the cast smeared Walker guts on themselves (not to mention the countless times they've been splattered by Walker blood when they pop one in the head) that no one has ever had so much as a scratch, some broken skin of some kind (even forgetting that you might get some in your mouth, your eyes, your ears etc...)

Of course what's probably more unbelievable is how quickly those antibiotics worked on Gabriel...

I don't get how anyone could maintain faith in this situation. I mean nothing says God loves you like destroying the world and turning everyone left into either a tragic victim, a horrible monster, or an undead horrible monster!

Glad Maggie is seeing some sense. If they're going to win then short of mass executions they're going to have to integrate some of the Saviors into the bigger group.

So now Dwight's back again? I thought someone knew he'd turned?

 

[crookeddy]

Glad Maggie is seeing some sense. If they're going to win then short of mass executions they're going to have to integrate some of the Saviors into the bigger group.

Well this is the Walking Dead, so obviously her decision will backfire and everyone in the hilltop will die, and Negan will make a speech about it.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

A little consistent internal logic from the beginning regarding the walker virus would have been nice.

According to Dr. Jenner, everyone is already infected. Not sure why being bitten would make a difference if you are already infected, unless a bite inevitably kills you by some other common pathogen first, but this doesn't seem to be what happens.

The walker bacteria in bites seem to be of an advanced stage, which in turn accelerates its breakdown of living organisms, i.e., the living. Regarding the internal logic matter, remember, in season one, Jim was bitten, and his health rapidly declined, which supports the idea that humans may carry the walker virus, but it requires the direct spread of bacteria (through bites) to activate, then accelerate the existing virus to its lethal state. That fact has been consistent ever since the beginning, with Sophia killed, then reanimated from a bite, Hershel having his calf amputated to prevent the lethal effect of the bite, Andrea committing suicide because her bite wounds could not be treated, etc.

The living are regularly exposed to walker blood and guts on their skin and clothing, sometimes even on their faces, but this by itself does not make them turn, though Gabriel did get seriously ill after being covered but seems to be fighting back.

Still have no idea why Father Gabriel is sick. He's been covered in walker guts before ( "Start to Finish" & "No Way Out" from season 6), with only fabric separating him from direct contact, but he was fine afterward.

Well overall I enjoyed that episode more than the previous two, but damn the internal logic of this show is for shit now. It's been clear that it's bites from Walkers that does you in (for some reason) because you're not telling me people don't get scratched by Walkers all the time?

For a threat of the magnitude of the walkers, I would say people are hyper-protective about not having much physical contact with the walkers. By now in the timeline, the average person would go out of their way to protect themselves, unless circumstances robbed them of basic personal defenses.

Of course what's probably more unbelievable is how quickly those antibiotics worked on Gabriel...

Not sure they're working all that well, since his POV shots still make it seem as though he's looking through the interior of a paper towel roll...lined with mud.

I don't get how anyone could maintain faith in this situation. I mean nothing says God loves you like destroying the world and turning everyone left into either a tragic victim, a horrible monster, or an undead horrible monster!

Every terrible experience is (ultimately) a test of one's resolve to overcome a situation, but not sacrifice your soul in doing so. If this series has taught anything its that those who either openly reject faith--following the nihilistic mindset, are almost always cemented to destruction and a pointlessness to life. They merely breathe just to breathe and not much else, other than tuning into ruthless predators no different than their so-called enemies. Dr. Carson believed he had some purpose, but was quick to shoot down Father Gabriel's faith, yet had to shut up when antibiotics, a map and car keys were found. Even he could not write it off as coincidence, when those where the things they needed most.

Take Michonne in season four's "After", where she was feeling hopeless searching for Rick & Carl, but the moment she found them, she cries, looking up to thank God, as anyone else would have considered it impossible and/or pointless to locate anyone after they scattered from the prison. Same with Glenn, who told Tara he had faith that he would find Maggie. Without that, characters on this series are usually miserable in one way or another, scratching and clawing for no genuine, greater reason. Yes, they will live to eat/sleep/crap for another day, but what is their point?

Glad Maggie is seeing some sense. If they're going to win then short of mass executions they're going to have to integrate some of the Saviors into the bigger group.

I see that going south. I hope the Savior who begged for temporary freedom is not paired with Maggie, or anyone else. For some reason, I had the suspicion that the showrunners might explore that, which would be wrongheaded, as Maggie is supposed to be eternally dedicated to Glenn, carrying his child, and in-series time, Glenn's death is not that far in the past.

So now Dwight's back again? I thought someone knew he'd turned?

Laura--who shot Dwight--but she ran off, and has not returned to the Sanctuary.

 

[Push The Button]

So if saliva is the key, and it takes a bite for a living person to turn, Negan's plan to weaponize the blood and guts should fail?

And on another subject, was Jadis piloting the helicopter?

 

[crookeddy]

6.6 million is the rating for this one. Once again lowest since season 2. We're getting close to season 1 numbers.

 

[.:: TSN ::.]

So if saliva is the key, and it takes a bite for a living person to turn, Negan's plan to weaponize the blood and guts should fail?

Everyone turns. No matter how they die. They could die of an old age and still turn. Bites have nothing to do with it re-animation.

Bites and zombie saliva/guts only cause an infection that kills a person. Like a bite from a rabid dog.

And I think that it is conceivable that you could cover yourself in zombie guts multiple times and not get infected, but then need only that one time when guts somehow get into your bloodstream and you get sick. You don't always get the flu even if there are sneezing and coughing people all around you.

 

[137th Gebirg]

And on another subject, was Jadis piloting the helicopter?

I'm thinking the same thing. Simon's observation of the helipad at the dump wasn't just some throwaway line. It was a clue to some greater meaning of that site.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

The Walking Dead--
"The Key"

Simon is clearly not a fan of Negan's "infection" plan. It makes one wonder how he signed up with Negan in the first place, since Simon's mass murder approach was not the way the Savior organization was built. I'm guessing Simon was behind the slaughter of all males from the group that would become Oceanside.

Nice moment between Rick and Daryl, though there is some distance still between them.

For the first time in three one-on-one conflicts, Rick aggressively tried to kill Negan, and was outthinking him. Yes, I know some WD fans wanted to see this at the beginning of the season, but from a storytelling perspective, it cannot come so easy for anyone...

...and now that Negan knows the truth about the Scavengers, his next encounter with the would-be usurper should be the beginning of the end for both....unless Negan convinces Jadis that a Simon-free world would be to their advantage.

Enid's anger toward Michonne was somewhat understandable, but trying to get in Michonne's face? Not too wise. I would not be shocked if Enid's anger/grief and newfound uncaring attitude gets her killed. She's incapable of understanding Carl's vision of living beyond war. Then again, she has not suffered to the degree Carl had, so perhaps that lack of experience makes her single-minded.

Goergie, Hildy and Midge...seems like another set-up, despite her Deanna-like talk of practical plans.

 

[137th Gebirg]

At first I really thought Simon was setting Dwight up, either knowing that he betrayed the Saviors' plan at Alexandria (with that one survivor returning in secret and telling them what Dwight really did) or a loyalty test. Shocked to see that Simon is really going rogue and taking the Saviors with him.

SO wanted Rick to start whistling Nagan-style in the basement. He was already getting into Negan's head good and proper, between the realization of what happened to the Scavangers, nobody coming to get him and, of course, Lucille. Jadis capturing him was an interesting turn.

And these new people. Not sure what to think about that. I really hope that they're for real and that they've finally found someone that isn't going to lie to them and get them in another war.

So I have never read the graphic novels. Are these an established group in there or are they new?

 

[Morpheus 02]

Depending on how Walking is doing...wonder if the new group will be there as a way to ease into a final season with society finally recovering.

So I am predicting Simon will be on the Talking Dead couch in 2 or 3 weeks...not the finale nor next week.

I wonder what Basis is up to...I gueas they WILL team up against Simon.

And a preview of sorts for Fear...is that 2 new characters coming? Not sure what will drive Morgan away other than the death of the kid...but for a another thread, I guess is where I should complain about Fear...wonder if anyone there will come to the original (or from past seasons)

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

At first I really thought Simon was setting Dwight up, either knowing that he betrayed the Saviors' plan at Alexandria (with that one survivor returning in secret and telling them what Dwight really did) or a loyalty test. Shocked to see that Simon is really going rogue and taking the Saviors with him.

Perhaps the series was trying to throw viewers about who the greater evil is; while Negan is a brutal murderer with his skull crushing ways, Simon has no problem with mass murder as a means of control, making him the greater threat. I too thought he was setting up Dwight, and who knows where that goes? It all depends on Laura (the Savior who shot Dwight) and what decision she makes. In the comics, Laura eventually joins Rick's gang, so her disappearance could be the period where she flips teams.

SO wanted Rick to start whistling Nagan-style in the basement. He was already getting into Negan's head good and proper, between the realization of what happened to the Scavangers, nobody coming to get him and, of course, Lucille. Jadis capturing him was an interesting turn.

Agreed. Rick burning, then trying to break Lucille was interesting, as he's aware of Negan's upside-down obsession with the bat. Regarding Jadis, I think she might try to hand Negan over to Rick--possibly in exchange for sanctuary, but I hope it ends there, never crossing over into Jadis finally getting her hands on Rick. I post that because Talking Dead's Yvette Nichole Brown observed some distance between Rick and Michonne (the loss of Carl), which I sort of noticed, and it could open the door to either ending up with another (even if its nothing more than a fling). The end result could be a break-up, which would be terrible, as their relationship was one of the more naturally built relationships in series history.

And these new people. Not sure what to think about that. I really hope that they're for real and that they've finally found someone that isn't going to lie to them and get them in another war.

I do suspect there's something wrong with that picture. Since the beginning, the heroes have encountered more predatory groups than the truly selfless, so the percentages are in not in favor of a good outcome.

Depending on how Walking is doing...wonder if the new group will be there as a way to ease into a final season with society finally recovering.

I cannot imagine a restored society coming so soon. There's usually a hitch with new groups. Even Alexandria had a questionable policy of kicking residents out into the wilderness (pretty much a death sentence), so there's rarely a new group walking on the normal side.

So I am predicting Simon will be on the Talking Dead couch in 2 or 3 weeks...not the finale nor next week.

While I do agree that Simon will die, I don't think he will have the predictable end (Negan), or die before the end of this season...at least I hope not.

And a preview of sorts for Fear...is that 2 new characters coming? Not sure what will drive Morgan away other than the death of the kid...but for a another thread, I guess is where I should complain about Fear...wonder if anyone there will come to the original (or from past seasons)

Please...FTWD characters need to stay on their series.

 

[jbny67]

SO wanted Rick to start whistling Nagan-style in the basement.

Actually, he did. It was a slight variation of the usual Savior's whistle, but it was obvious what it was.
ETA : You can hear him do it right at the beginning of this clip.

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[crookeddy]

So this show can still be good when something actually happens?? Go figure!

 

[Starkers]

I really enjoyed that, although of course there was no real drama in the basement fight. Simon's screwed every which way now. Either Dwight will ice him, Rick/Maggie/whoever will, or Negan will (or Negan will let Jadis do it)

Wow Negan really likes his bat...

And the potential for a new group? I really hope Georgie is on the level, because someone needs to be thinking about the future so it's nice to see mention of windmills etc. It might be ancient technology but reverting to a medieval/renaissance/19th Century setup is a damn sight better than slipping back into the bronze age or even cavemen times. It'll save humanity a few centuries in rebuilding itself at least!

 

[Morpheus 02]

I do suspect there's something wrong with that picture. Since the beginning, the heroes have encountered more predatory groups than the truly selfless, so the percentages are in not in favor of a good outcome.



I cannot imagine a restored society coming so soon. There's usually a hitch with new groups. Even Alexandria had a questionable policy of kicking residents out into the wilderness (pretty much a death sentence), so there's rarely a new group walking on the normal side.

Oh, i don't think a restored society would come soon..just setting up for the LAST season, where we SHOULD have stability on the horizon, if not actually there. It would seem a little like the into to Alexandria arc, except that the found stable society actually IS working, and strong enough to survive (whereas Alexandria's isolation and "innocence" finally caught up to it)

Our new visitors, who seem to be set up to RANDOMLY appear, could be a good segue to that final season.

Please...FTWD characters need to stay on their series.

The only ones i would be interested in are:
1) Tobias (to see how he has changed over the years)
2) Strand (interesting enough to shake things up)
3) Daniel
4) The Asian woman from the first video shorts, and 2 minutes of what season 2?
(Basically, the NON white ones that have survived)

 

[Jayson1]

Oh, i don't think a restored society would come soon..just setting up for the LAST season, where we SHOULD have stability on the horizon, if not actually there. It would seem a little like the into to Alexandria arc, except that the found stable society actually IS working, and strong enough to survive (whereas Alexandria's isolation and "innocence" finally caught up to it)

Our new visitors, who seem to be set up to RANDOMLY appear, could be a good segue to that final season.


The only ones i would be interested in are:
1) Tobias (to see how he has changed over the years)
2) Strand (interesting enough to shake things up)
3) Daniel
4) The Asian woman from the first video shorts, and 2 minutes of what season 2?
(Basically, the NON white ones that have survived)

I wonder if any of the old characters will even be on their old show besides Madison. I think they might have cleaned house if the adds are to be judged.

As for "Walking Dead" I liked it but I am tired of the cliche of a character getting all hard and then embracing humanity while another character goes in the other direction. I guess Enid is about to get really annoying, pretty soon. They have already kind of ruined the Tara character by doing this and Rosita before her. Eugene is almost like that but lucky for us is that he is such a oddball that him going to darkness still feels kind of different. Maybe that is because he is such a coward that his disdain comes out differently than just acting all moody.

Jason

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Our new visitors, who seem to be set up to RANDOMLY appear, could be a good segue to that final season.

That could be the case, but there has to be some sort of conflict with them--or something preventing the heroes from joining and/or adopting the practices of this new group.

The only ones i would be interested in are:
2) Strand (interesting enough to shake things up)

FTWD stripped him of any interesting qualities he possessed in season one/early season two. Now, he's just a panting, negative guy doing one shady thing after another, with no depth to his personality.

3) Daniel

No...no. He's such a distasteful, asshole of a character that the only way I would want to see him on TWD is for Daniel to walk right into Whisperer territory and is killed on sight. No dialogue. Best walk-on ever.

I wonder if any of the old characters will even be on their old show besides Madison. I think they might have cleaned house if the adds are to be judged.

Probably AMC not teasing too much. At the end of the previous season, Strand and the Clark family were scattered, but alive. If they want a shake-up now that Lennie James is joining the show (n one knows for how long), I hope that means characters with no purpose get the axe, like Daniel, who only exists to obsessively hate Strand. Perhaps Morgan will be forced to bump him off. That would be great.

One positive is that Luciana will return to the series. She was one of the few solid, new characters added to the series.

I guess Enid is about to get really annoying, pretty soon.

I agree. I don't think Michonne's (and Carl's) wisdom about living for a tomorrow beyond fighting has sunk in. She's so wrapped up in revenge that she might do anything, including returning to Oceanside to find Aaron, and invite revenge from Cyndie (for killing Natania).

They have already kind of ruined the Tara character by doing this and Rosita before her. Eugene is almost like that but lucky for us is that he is such a oddball that him going to darkness still feels kind of different. Maybe that is because he is such a coward that his disdain comes out differently than just acting all moody.

Jason

Yeah, Eugene is the one character who will act, but not in the constant, irritating way of Tara. Tara really needs to be bumped off this season. Who will mis her?