USS Enterprise (eventually) on Discovery?
- Thread starter EJD1984
- Start date
That's a pretty silly conclusion and an even sillier claim - the Enterprise scene comes completely out of nowhere and has absolutely nothing to do with the fifteen episodes of Whatever that precedes it.
So there's no reason to give a fuck what the showrunners say about it in interviews.
So there's no reason to give a fuck what the showrunners say about it in interviews.
I generally like the Enterprise in the finale but that story is just crap. They didn't know at the start of the season that they were going to show the Enterprise in the finale. It was tacked on because they knew at some point they were going to have to show the Enterprise and just decided that the last scene of the final episode of the first season was just as good a time as any to introduce her and get it out of the way. If they waited too long a lot of fans would have bitched about the delay in showing the most famous ship in the entire franchise and if they didn't at all it would backfire on them even more angrily.
They picked the season finale. They didn't start from that scene. They simply ended on it because they probably realized how anticlimactic and unsatisfying that last episode was and they needed a "Wow" moment.
They picked the season finale. They didn't start from that scene. They simply ended on it because they probably realized how anticlimactic and unsatisfying that last episode was and they needed a "Wow" moment.
For anyone who really wants the continuity thing, here's a scenario:
*Something* happens to the Discoprise in the second season and it gets destroyed. Pike and crew are suddenly without a ship.
There's this brand-new, one-off prototype that has just successfully completed testing by Captain Robert April and crew. Her name is USS Yorktown. April is now retiring and his crew members are being reassigned elsewhere. In a special ceremony, Starfleet re-names the ship USS Enterprise and April transfers command to Pike. This begins the TOS ship design era.
This *could* work, because:
Nothing was ever really done in TOS with USS Constitution. That could have been a half-scale test ship like Pathfinder was for the shuttle fleet. Yorktown-Enterprise could have been the first full-size operational ship in the line.
Discoprise could have been a different class than Constitution. Thus, the TOS Enterprise is not designated 1701-A.
Here and there it was said that Robert April was captain of the Enterprise for X number of years. But, nowhere does it specifically say that her name was Enterprise while he commanded her. Even if you want to make TAS canon, April is on the Enterprise at the time Kirk is in command, so that is naturally what he refers to her as at that point. It's kind of a neat little loophole that could help make this scenario work.
Who is to say that testing of the ship didn't take years....especially if there were bugs that took a while to get worked out, delays between outings due to security concerns, etc. Quite a number of years between a prototype being first tested and then finally put into service is definitely not without precedent, considering military aircraft.
Going from angled pylons of Discoprise to straight pylons of TOS and back to angled pylons of TMP....hey, car designers have their era of rounded designs, then more straight and angular, and then back to rounded again and so on.
Any takers for this explanation of the continuity?
*Something* happens to the Discoprise in the second season and it gets destroyed. Pike and crew are suddenly without a ship.
There's this brand-new, one-off prototype that has just successfully completed testing by Captain Robert April and crew. Her name is USS Yorktown. April is now retiring and his crew members are being reassigned elsewhere. In a special ceremony, Starfleet re-names the ship USS Enterprise and April transfers command to Pike. This begins the TOS ship design era.
This *could* work, because:
Nothing was ever really done in TOS with USS Constitution. That could have been a half-scale test ship like Pathfinder was for the shuttle fleet. Yorktown-Enterprise could have been the first full-size operational ship in the line.
Discoprise could have been a different class than Constitution. Thus, the TOS Enterprise is not designated 1701-A.
Here and there it was said that Robert April was captain of the Enterprise for X number of years. But, nowhere does it specifically say that her name was Enterprise while he commanded her. Even if you want to make TAS canon, April is on the Enterprise at the time Kirk is in command, so that is naturally what he refers to her as at that point. It's kind of a neat little loophole that could help make this scenario work.
Who is to say that testing of the ship didn't take years....especially if there were bugs that took a while to get worked out, delays between outings due to security concerns, etc. Quite a number of years between a prototype being first tested and then finally put into service is definitely not without precedent, considering military aircraft.
Going from angled pylons of Discoprise to straight pylons of TOS and back to angled pylons of TMP....hey, car designers have their era of rounded designs, then more straight and angular, and then back to rounded again and so on.
Any takers for this explanation of the continuity?
Or it could have been an instance of the Enterprise being heavily damaged on a mission post-2257 and some of the features seen on the ship in DSC are either discovered to have been ineffective or found to be a dead end or failure, being replaced by the external features we see in the second TOS pilot. Some impulse decks could be plug-and-switch modular units anyways, with new ones installed every few years as we clearly see in just the first three episodes of TOS, with one design in use in 2254, another in 2265 and yet a third being used by the ship in 2266 and a part of its propulsion systems until the major refit prior to TMP.
This impulse deck would be at least the fourth used by the NCC-1701 between 2245 and 2270, so if an entire impulse engine system can be replaced on a semi-regular basis then I don't see why other systems won't be replaced after a major battle or disaster or the introduction of new technology into service and then disseminated through the ranks of the fleet.
This impulse deck would be at least the fourth used by the NCC-1701 between 2245 and 2270, so if an entire impulse engine system can be replaced on a semi-regular basis then I don't see why other systems won't be replaced after a major battle or disaster or the introduction of new technology into service and then disseminated through the ranks of the fleet.
Another thing that occurred to me involves the demands of ship construction. People are rather stuck on the kind of rigors and lengths of time involved that we see today with Navy ships.
By 200 to 300 years into the future? It might be quite different.
What was Genesis? Seems like it was a form of nanotechnology. While the version for planets might have been troublesome, one for building ships and structures might have been workable and in place for some time.
Ships by that era might be much easier and faster to build.
Also, as our technology moves forward the Trek universe may get re-booted many times to keep it out in front of what's current here. And that is not necessarily a bad thing if done right. Re-boots don't really replace or negate anything.
By 200 to 300 years into the future? It might be quite different.
What was Genesis? Seems like it was a form of nanotechnology. While the version for planets might have been troublesome, one for building ships and structures might have been workable and in place for some time.
Ships by that era might be much easier and faster to build.
Also, as our technology moves forward the Trek universe may get re-booted many times to keep it out in front of what's current here. And that is not necessarily a bad thing if done right. Re-boots don't really replace or negate anything.
Great post!
There is a lot of meaning behind a choice like how things are filmed. As you say, establishing shots of ships used to show, and celebrate, the marvels of human progress. They were a visual symbol of technological marvel. Now the lack of beauty shots treats space travel as a given, with none of the wonder.
I also think... what if the obscure shots of ships point to another kind of obscurantist mindset; in say TNG, the ship was shown quite clearly, for viewers to clearly apprehend. The principle idea behind science is the sharing of information clearly and concisely; to communicate it to the maximum number of people as understandably as possible. Now the science and engineering on the show is increasingly obscure. Are the visuals following the general attitude of the writing room perhaps?
Retcon does not imply reboot. Just because they've updated designs doesn't mean it's a reboot. And there's no need to "explain" retcon in-universe.
Yeah, except for the fact that they are the ones making it, right?
They were floundering around for some reveal to bring viewers back for the second year. They barely managed to stagger to the end of what they were calling their "story arc," much less being able to set up a hook for year two. This was low-hanging fruit.
I always thought it did. To each their own, I guess///
Oh, don't get me wrong! The Vengeance absolutely came across as menacing in the movie! It's just, not so much the design itself, but how it was framed: The direction of the scene (I give JJ Abrams often shit for his plots, but he ias a FABULOUS scene director!). How the ship hunkered above the Enterprise, the lightning from behind, the scary sound effects - all very well crafted.
But if you look at the ship itself, say in form of a toy model of it, or still screen caps - it's actually a surprisingly gentle desig, with overall gently proportions. Only coated under a dark skin. But IMO if they took the exact basic shape and just give it a lighter hue, it could easily be the new 'hero ship'.
Regarding it's one main character (Burnham) the show is more character-focused than most previous Trek shows (apart from DS9). But overall, the show is very plot-driven, often using characters purely as vessels for the plot to give shocking twists, turns and charakter deaths, to the point that it's sometimes even undermining characterization: Nobody can say Lorca became MORE interesting after his big reveal(s).
But this is especially compared to other, modern, serialized television: Something like the BSG reboot, or even most of Netflix more popular stuff drives A LOT more on characters than DIS does at this point. This is not a criticism. Just an observation.
There is thought given, just that they are setting up what will become more optimistic in TOS. At least, that's my reading as I watch the show.
Again, to each their own...
This was solely about how the tone of the show resulted in the depiction of starships. This is were not much thought was given. In fact, the finale was the very first time we actually saw something akin to a traditional "establishing shot" of the Discovery. Of course the showmakes had a TON of thoughts on the tone of their show. Those thoughts just weren't very starship centered, to the point the Discovery (or Shenzhou) has less "character" than previous hero ships at at that point had. Again, no criticism, just an observation: The showmakers intended to tell their stories about human characters. The starships were treated as things, a meaning of transportation to move the plot along. Comparable to the depiction on Star Wars, in contrast to previous Trek, were Kirk was almost in love with his ship, or the Voyager crew pretty fast looked upon the ship as their new "home", or even the personal connection Archer had with his ship or Sisko with the Defiant.
Yeah, I got the feeling the showrunners were pretty much "stuck" with the klingon war arc and the mirror universe detour - since they took over after Fuller's production already had started, and they had the first scripts written and all the expensive props and CG-models already created were for klingons and mirror universe stuff. And the new writers had NO FUCKING CLUE how to resolve that - either because Fuller didn't leave any notes on his plans to resolve everything, or they simply didn't like his plans.
The main season arc had the strong feeling of the writers and producers "soldiering through" through a plot arc that wasn't really their own, and weren't very interested in.
Season 2 will actually be the first time we will see what THEY want to do with their show, almost akin to a "real" first season. That will also be the point were I can truly decide whether to stay with the show or not. S1 was a horrible mess that left me uninterested. But that wasn't entirely the fault of the writers and people running things, but a result of the botched production. And even if we didn't really saw it exploited, there is a shit-ton of potential in the things they have created so far. Let's hope for season 2 the production runs a bit smoother...
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Gonzo
Guest
This is my thinking too, no need for mental gymnastics like I often see on here to provide a reason, sometimes its simply a consequence of the development process and production changes.
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Gonzo
Guest
That's my thinking as well, reboot query aside it just seems like there may have been too many cooks in the kitchen, or maybe too many stakeholders and expectations from too many directions.
They tried to please everyone but it suffered for it.
G
Gonzo
Guest
To be honest they could just be saying that to cover their arses.
What they are saying and what we see on screen doesn't really match at all.
The MU stuff felt tacked on as well.
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Gonzo
Guest
Ultimately they needed something to make people come back for next season or if at all possible to ensure they don't just drop their subscription as soon as the first season ended.
Wouldn't surprise me if it was the money people who demanded it.
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Gonzo
Guest
I think they threw out most of the plot that Fuller had in place very late in production and then had to cobble together a plot arc for the season using what cgi and footage they already had, its the only thing that makes sense to me and explains what we saw on screen, don't get me wrong the first season was still good, it just makes me wonder at what it could have been if Fuller had been allowed to finish what he started or they had not chosen his path in the first place.
Must admit I thought the whole Mirror Georgiou stuff was a bit clunky and I think Michelle Yeoh is a great actress but her portrayal of the Emperor was borderline hammy in places, I couldn't take her character seriously.
The MU stuff didn't really add anything to the season at all, it felt tacked on just like the Enterprise reveal at the end.
I think the original connie doesn't have an "official" size and they can and will change it to whatever the hell they want. The only significant factor for the final scale is actually the size of the windows on whatever interior sets wind up representing the Enterprise, assuming they bother to build some. If the set windows scale to a proportion, relative to the model, that suggests a much larger ship, then that winds up being the official size.
You're assuming that size alone is a good indicator of technological advancement... Why?
Why would the Constitution class be part of the design lineage of a science vessel?
Yeah, rebooting Lore is probably a bad idea...
I've never been able to take any mirror Universe character seriously. They have all been over the top and hammy. Lorca was the only one until he went to the Universe and became like the rest of them.
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