Sisko

[Horta]

I'm a big fan of TNG and Voyager. I just started watching DS9. So far, I'm not a huge fan of Captain Sisko. I just feel he is a bad actor, and his voice intonation is a little annoying to me. Hopefully, I'll change my view as I watch more episodes. Does anyone else have a comments about the acting of any of the captains?

 

[Bad Thoughts]

No, I generally think that all the actors cast to play the series' leads are excellent actors. In most cases, figuring out the "captain" took time for all the series' writers, and they were generally more interesting by the time of their respective finales. Among them, only Janeway's development seemed to fall short, but that may be because the studio was too invested in Janeway's image as she was the lead of the network's "flagship series." Mulgrew is an excellent actor, and I feel that some of her unfulfilled goals for the character would have been very interesting.

 

[Jayson1]

He gets better once he is allowed to shave his head in season 4. Even then he is someone who tends to overact much like the Shat man. I don't mind it that much. I think he is kind of weak compared, at least in acting, compared to Kirk,Picard,Janeway and Lorca but is much better than Archer or Burnham. Despite this he is IMO the most complex Captain we have seen in Trek. His realtionship with his son is one of my most favorite things in Trek and I wish my dad had been more like that with me. He does tend to blend into the background more than most captains. It is just how the show was. Since it wasn't a spaceship you often had things going on that had nothing to do with station business. Plus a huge number supporting characters who would feel just as important as the regulars and that means not everyone is going to have much to do in all episodes.

Jason

 

[Kilana2]

I like Avery Brook's original voice. He's the reason I sometimes watch the episodes without dubbing. There are great episodes with Sisko being central. Most of them in later seasons.
@ Horta You may reconsider your opinion about Sisko after What you Leave Behind.

And I have to agree: the interactions between Sisko and Jake were remarkable.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

He gets better once he is allowed to shave his head in season 4.
Jason

He still does the voice inflection thing after the hair went away

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[Discofan]

I don't know that Avery Brooks is such a bad captain compared to others. Shatner has spent so much time chewing the scenery that it's a wonder he has any teeth left.

 

[Qonundrum]

I gravitate toward emphatic and theatrical acting, so Avery, along with William Shatner, Christopher Plummer, Paul Darrows, and others, all already appeal. Depends on personal tastes. Bakulka might be the weakest, but a lot of ENT was just weak (IMHO) and more "natural acting" requires a good script to begin with. Bad scripts easily get elevated by actors who can turn nonsense into something that's at least fun. And, in general, noting enough wooden actors in life, scene chewers are simply preferable.

And it's easy to conflate actor for script as well. "Emissary" could have been stronger with the show's premise, as opposed to the TOS-like "We advanced aliens do not understand this thing you call love", though the Picard/Sisko meeting made up for it:

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Avery carries Sisko's contained anger rather well. Picard's almost on autopilot with patronizing Sisko shows it's all a bit iffy with the writing - or at least an uncertainty in terms of how Picard should deal with Sisko since, 3 years later, Picard surely would have had to deal with such a situation (facing someone who was adversely impacted by Locutus, which is big) by then? But Stewart also knows this episode is for Avery, it's not TNG but DS9 - and if nothing else the end of the scene certainly tells the show's premise well enough (working in a less-than-ideal situation).

Avery certainly nails the conflict, culminated when he gets the chance to respond to Picard about doing his duty and Picard still can't understand why. I don't necessarily mean due to how Picard was under duress (as Locutus) at the time, and it didn't help that there was no opportunity for Picard to get to admit what happened (PTSD, keeping it buried?) Sisko knows his duty and Picard sounding patronizing about "Oh, well we should just get a replacement" - while not entirely out of character - doesn't make Picard as lovable as the other captains as a result. Kirk fought for his crew, so did Sisko, Janeway, and I'd have to rewatch ENT but I'd bet Archer did too... Picard just acts nasty, then in FC forgets how he got de-borged and guns down his own crew because he doesn't need any numbers, he can save the day as he's wearing a brightly colored cape and flying around.

 

[Discofan]

I gravitate toward emphatic and theatrical acting, so Avery, along with William Shatner, Christopher Plummer, Paul Darrows, and others, all already appeal. Depends on personal tastes. Bakulka might be the weakest, but a lot of ENT was just weak (IMHO) and more "natural acting" requires a good script to begin with. Bad scripts easily get elevated by actors who can turn nonsense into something that's at least fun. And, in general, noting enough wooden actors in life, scene chewers are simply preferable.

And it's easy to conflate actor for script as well. "Emissary" could have been stronger with the show's premise, as opposed to the TOS-like "We advanced aliens do not understand this thing you call love", though the Picard/Sisko meeting made up for it:

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Avery carries Sisko's contained anger rather well. Picard's almost on autopilot with patronizing Sisko shows it's all a bit iffy with the writing - or at least an uncertainty in terms of how Picard should deal with Sisko since, 3 years later, Picard surely would have had to deal with such a situation (facing someone who was adversely impacted by Locutus, which is big) by then? But Stewart also knows this episode is for Avery, it's not TNG but DS9 - and if nothing else the end of the scene certainly tells the show's premise well enough (working in a less-than-ideal situation).

Avery certainly nails the conflict, culminated when he gets the chance to respond to Picard about doing his duty and Picard still can't understand why. I don't necessarily mean due to how Picard was under duress (as Locutus) at the time, and it didn't help that there was no opportunity for Picard to get to admit what happened (PTSD, keeping it buried?) Sisko knows his duty and Picard sounding patronizing about "Oh, well we should just get a replacement" - while not entirely out of character - doesn't make Picard as lovable as the other captains as a result. Kirk fought for his crew, so did Sisko, Janeway, and I'd have to rewatch ENT but I'd bet Archer did too... Picard just acts nasty, then in FC forgets how he got de-borged and guns down his own crew because he doesn't need any numbers, he can save the day as he's wearing a brightly colored cape and flying around.

I don't know. I am reading this scene almost oppositely to you. I thought Siko was unbelievably unfair to lash out at Picard that way, considering he had years to think about it. Blaming Picard for that situation is no better than blaming a rape victim for the rape. Sisko is supposed to be intelligent not some brute who sends nasty letters to an actor who happens to play the bad guy in a TV series (as I've been told sometimes happens). If Picard had been as out of control as Sisko was in that scene he would have angrily told him that; instead of taking it as diplomatically as he did. Sisko's attitude might have been excusable days or even weeks after the events but not YEARS. How long does it take him to cool off and think a little about Picard's plight?

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I don't know. I am reading this scene almost oppositely to you. I thought Siko was unbelievably unfair to lash out at Picard that way, considering he had years to think about it. Blaming Picard for that situation is no better than blaming a rape victim for the rape. Sisko is supposed to be intelligent not some brute who sends nasty letters to an actor who happens to play the bad guy in a TV series (as I've been told sometimes happens). If Picard had been as out of control as Sisko was in that scene he would have angrily told him that; instead of taking it as diplomatically as he did. Sisko's attitude might have been excusable days or even weeks after the events but not YEARS. How long does it take him to cool off and think a little about Picard's plight?

Talk about victim blaming: here's is another post about how someone should be able to rationalize their way out of PTSD.

 

[Discofan]

Talk about victim blaming: here's is another post about how someone should be able to rationalize their way out of PTSD.

I thought Picard did a very good job in that area considering what he's been through. It was indeed wrong to blame him for anything, to begin with.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I thought Picard did a very good job in that area considering what he's been through. It was indeed wrong to blame him for anything, to begin with.

Of course he did: it was totally artificial. Roddenberry opposed "Family," and only through Berman's influence were they able to get one episode (actually less than one) dealing with the ramifications of his captivity. So, it was compete BS.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I agree in some cases his acting is a little over-intense but in most episodes it works fine. It gets toned down a bit after season one when the writers figure out better how to use his intensity.

 

[Tosk]

I thought Picard did a very good job in that area considering what he's been through. It was indeed wrong to blame him for anything, to begin with.

So it's okay for Picard to take years to deal with his trauma, but not okay for Sisko?

 

[Discofan]

So it's okay for Picard to take years to deal with his trauma, but not okay for Sisko?

No.

However, I don't remember Picard putting the blame on anyone but himself, even at the highest of his anguish. Sisko puts the blame on people that are themselves victims. I'd rather be around someone like Picard than someone like Sisko, if only for my own safety.

 

[Tosk]

Everyone deals with their grief in different ways. Sisko's anger with Picard may or may not be logical, but anger often isn't.

He lets it go in the end, but it seems the "Sisko spoke meanly to Picard!" folk can't.

Blaming Picard for that situation is no better than blaming a rape victim for the rape.

I disagree. In my mind the best contemporary analogy would be if someone were indoctrinated into a cult. If a cult member killed your family, and then was subsequently rescued and deprogrammed, and felt truly terrible for what they had done...would it be so easy to forgive them? Even if you knew for absolute certain that they acted in a way that they never would have otherwise, they have still broken your life.

 

[Discofan]

...
I disagree. In my mind the best contemporary analogy would be if someone were indoctrinated into a cult. If a cult member killed your family, and then was subsequently rescued and deprogrammed, and felt truly terrible for what they had done...would it be so easy to forgive them? Even if you knew for absolute certain that they acted in a way that they never would have otherwise, they have still broken your life.

I don't remember that happening in real life, only in fictions sometimes and it always sounds a bit contrived to me.

But if you can cite me one real case of someone being indoctrinated into killing someone and later on being captured, radically deprogrammed and expressing remorse for what they've done. I am open to examining it and giving you my opinion about it.

 

[Tosk]

What real life case were you referencing when you compared the Sisko/Picard situation with a rape victim?

 

[Discofan]

What real life case were you referencing when you compared the Sisko/Picard situation with a rape victim?

It's well known that rape victims have been blamed for the rapes throughout history and even now it would be feasible for an unscrupulous lawyer to convince a jury that a victim is at least partially to blame for the rape that's why there are laws preventing that kind of thing, AKA rape shield laws.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

But if you can cite me one real case of someone being indoctrinated into killing someone and later on being captured, radically deprogrammed and expressing remorse for what they've done. I am open to examining it and giving you my opinion about it.

The Hitler Youth.

 

[Tosk]

It's well known that rape victims have been blamed for the rapes throughout history and even now it would be feasible for an unscrupulous lawyer to convince a jury that a victim is at least partially to blame for the rape that's why there are laws preventing that kind of thing, AKA rape shield laws.

And how does that have anything in common with Sisko blaming Picard for the death of his wife?