Was there? In the ship's chapel scene?
Being a starship captain...a big deal?
- Thread starter dswynne1
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Yes its on TREKCORE p 30 (Don't know how to post pictures - sorry)
Great spotting!
So 2 women
And the men are:- Scotty, Spock, Security Head, Gary, McCoy + Some full commander in red I saw in the background of one episode and various captains, admirals from other ships.
If you're listing all lieutenant commanders and above, yeah, there's one redshirt and one goldshirt in the briefing room scene in The Enterprise Incident. I just pretend they weren't there because they were mute and standing and sort of out of nowhere. Also, Lang, goldshirt killed offscreen on Cestus III, was an LTC.
So thats about a 1/4 ratio which isn't all that great I suppose but I wonder how that relates to our current military organisations
I think it's pretty plain TOS was presenting the Enterprise as one of the top of the line ships and that one would need to be pretty special even to just be a member of the crew let alone the captain. There is no reason in TOS to think there are any more powerful or prestigious ships. The Connies were like our aircraft carriers of today. There were only a dozen or so of them. Rising to command one makes one pretty special.
I have no idea why Kirk's level of fame matters. I wouldn't expect the average citizen of Earth to know the names of the captains of their starships any more than I know the names of the captains of our aircraft carriers. But I bet people in the Navy with reason to know know who the captains of the aircraft carriers are, and I'm sure people in starfleet with reason to know know who Kirk is.
And, Timo, is it really your position that Kirk stopped a doomsday weapon from entering the most densely populated section of our galaxy thereby saving billions/trillions of lives, but that he wasn't seen as anything special for it? Riiiiiiiiiiight.
We have no way of knowing whether the other Connies are having adventures like the Enterprise every week or not, but even if they are, even if all the other Connie captains are saving the galaxy every week, that does not diminish Kirk's specialness. Being one of only a dozen captains of only a dozen very special starships is still pretty darn special.
Timo, you are trying to make some kind of point in saying that Kirk wasn't sent on the most important of his missions, he stumbled upon them, but I disagree. I would say that his being sent on the 5 year mission WAS his being sent to face the very kinds of threats he "stumbles" onto. Starfleet sent their ships to explore the galaxy knowing the kinds of threats they might face, so they only sent their best.
Neither do I think it somehow harms Kirk's character that he is among the best of the best. We see plenty of tv shows giving us the adventures of the best of the best. The leads' characters are not diminished for it. All that matters is that the threats they face are worthy of them. Kirk and crew are sufficiently challenged in TOS that we can call them heroes and all kinds of special.
I have no idea why Kirk's level of fame matters. I wouldn't expect the average citizen of Earth to know the names of the captains of their starships any more than I know the names of the captains of our aircraft carriers. But I bet people in the Navy with reason to know know who the captains of the aircraft carriers are, and I'm sure people in starfleet with reason to know know who Kirk is.
And, Timo, is it really your position that Kirk stopped a doomsday weapon from entering the most densely populated section of our galaxy thereby saving billions/trillions of lives, but that he wasn't seen as anything special for it? Riiiiiiiiiiight.
We have no way of knowing whether the other Connies are having adventures like the Enterprise every week or not, but even if they are, even if all the other Connie captains are saving the galaxy every week, that does not diminish Kirk's specialness. Being one of only a dozen captains of only a dozen very special starships is still pretty darn special.
Timo, you are trying to make some kind of point in saying that Kirk wasn't sent on the most important of his missions, he stumbled upon them, but I disagree. I would say that his being sent on the 5 year mission WAS his being sent to face the very kinds of threats he "stumbles" onto. Starfleet sent their ships to explore the galaxy knowing the kinds of threats they might face, so they only sent their best.
Neither do I think it somehow harms Kirk's character that he is among the best of the best. We see plenty of tv shows giving us the adventures of the best of the best. The leads' characters are not diminished for it. All that matters is that the threats they face are worthy of them. Kirk and crew are sufficiently challenged in TOS that we can call them heroes and all kinds of special.
Lang is a good one, the Concordance (apparently based on the script) named Kelowitz the LCDR and that persisted for years.
And of course, there was records officer Finney. As for LCDR extras, there was also one at the navigator station in "The Alternative Factor."
Duh, Finney, of course. FINNEY!Lang is a good one, the Concordance (apparently based on the script) named Kelowitz the LCDR and that persisted for years.
And of course, there was records officer Finney. As for LCDR extras, there was also one at the navigator station in "The Alternative Factor."
Had no memory of the navigation officer from TAF; good catch. Not an episode I frequently rewatch.
Mitchell said Dehner was one of 100 women Kirk could have chosen from to babysit him, out of the (later introduced) figure of 430. That would mean that roughly one out of every four crewpersons was a woman, so one out of every four LTCs being a woman would be parity.
Uhura herself started off wearing command gold in TOS and then switched to red, too. And "The Lorelei Signal" is not the only instance in TAS where she had command. There was also "Bem" (TAS) as well, where she was left in command while Kirk, Spock, Scotty, and Sulu are all on landing party. When communications with Kirk and Spock are lost, she gives orders to the men, even overruling Scotty:
UHURA: Lieutenant Arex, start a sensor scan for Captain Kirk and Mister Spock. Landing party, prepare to beam up.
SCOTTY: Lieutenant Uhura, we could track the Captain down.
UHURA: I'm sorry, Mister Scott, that's not procedure. We can't take chances.
SCOTTY: We're talking about the Captain.
UHURA: I know it, but we have to follow his orders. Stand by to beam up.
SCOTTY: Standing by.
-MMoM
ONLY 6 years late commenting here.
On the 1970s record album, Inside Star Trek, Gene mentions the studio execs. rejection feedback on The Cage was that a woman "wouldn't be left in charge of anything". That is, women wouldn't be second in command of a Starship nor a captain of a Starship. It was the 60s and a lot of men of Gene's age had served in WW2, the Korean War, or Vietnam. And misogyny was rule of the day.
Back then, women Staff Officers were common but women Line Officers were unheard of. To be a Line Officer means you have to have combat leadership experience.
Details…
“a Line officer or Officer of the Line is a U.S. Navy or U.S. Marine Corps commissioned officer or warrant officer who exercises general command authority and is eligible for operational command positions, as opposed to officers who normally exercise command authority only within a Navy Staff Corps.[1] The term line officer is also used by the U.S. Air Force and U.S. Coast Guard to indicate that an officer is eligible for command of operational, viz., tactical or combat units.”-Wiki
On the 1970s record album, Inside Star Trek, Gene mentions the studio execs. rejection feedback on The Cage was that a woman "wouldn't be left in charge of anything". That is, women wouldn't be second in command of a Starship nor a captain of a Starship. It was the 60s and a lot of men of Gene's age had served in WW2, the Korean War, or Vietnam. And misogyny was rule of the day.
Back then, women Staff Officers were common but women Line Officers were unheard of. To be a Line Officer means you have to have combat leadership experience.
Details…
“a Line officer or Officer of the Line is a U.S. Navy or U.S. Marine Corps commissioned officer or warrant officer who exercises general command authority and is eligible for operational command positions, as opposed to officers who normally exercise command authority only within a Navy Staff Corps.[1] The term line officer is also used by the U.S. Air Force and U.S. Coast Guard to indicate that an officer is eligible for command of operational, viz., tactical or combat units.”-Wiki
ONLY 6 years late commenting here.
On the 1970s record album, Inside Star Trek, Gene mentions the studio execs. rejection feedback on The Cage was that a woman "wouldn't be left in charge of anything". That is, women wouldn't be second in command of a Starship nor a captain of a Starship. It was the 60s and a lot of men of Gene's age had served in WW2, the Korean War, or Vietnam. And misogyny was rule of the day.
Back then, women Staff Officers were common but women Line Officers were unheard of. To be a Line Officer means you have to have combat leadership experience.
Details…
“a Line officer or Officer of the Line is a U.S. Navy or U.S. Marine Corps commissioned officer or warrant officer who exercises general command authority and is eligible for operational command positions, as opposed to officers who normally exercise command authority only within a Navy Staff Corps.[1] The term line officer is also used by the U.S. Air Force and U.S. Coast Guard to indicate that an officer is eligible for command of operational, viz., tactical or combat units.”-Wiki
Welcome to the board.
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This one has been dead for 6 years. Let’s let it rest in peace.
Thanks.
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