Poll Do you consider Discovery to truly be in the Prime Timeline at this point?
- Thread starter Annorax849
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However, some of those are little details, one-off mistakes, early installment weirdness, or were corrected. For a 50+ year franchise, the pre-DSC Star Trek timeline is extremely internally consistent and mistake free. (Not saying that there are mistakes, but the freewheeling take on continuity that DSC has adopted is not how the franchise works.)
Sorry I must have been mistaken in thinking they were still in production at the time. Looking up I see they finished filming in October 2017 as well. So there really wasn't any time to make any kind of drastic changes - you are correct. I wonder if the Enterprise scene was already filmed or they brought them back in to tack that on?
"Freewheeling" is a judgment call, though. I've been fascinated with the ways this series interacts with continuity, the way it re-contextualizes and adds nuance to previous series. Others, clearly, have not been.
"How the franchise works" is also a judgment call, and one that has changed multiple times over the years. The Motion Picture is a departure from Star Trek, an attempt to be less Forbidden Planet and more A Space Odyssey. The Wrath of Khan is a further departure from that, but not in the direction of Star Trek. With the exception of "Balance of Terror," Star Trek was never so naval, never so martial. The Next Generation is yet a further departure; at first it hews closer to the world of The Motion Picture (advanced by a century), but over the course of its run it changes into something very different, more concerned with its own mythology than with the messages, morals, and meanings. Individual episodes here and there still stand out as very Star Trek, but the overall course of the franchise moves away from that, until you get to the literal death of it all with the "fan fiction" season of Enterprise.
This first season of Discovery has been an experiment in "how the franchise works" now.
I would argue that TMP and TWOK are both major changes in line with what DISCO is doing.
Also, it is expanding upon what has gone on before.
It was classified to protection the young federation. Problem solved
In the novels at least, the Romulans were trying to hide their identity from the Humans and their allies. They wore suits, and didn’t use visual communications.
The difference is TMP and TWOK have the benefit of nostalgia, fond memories, and the TOS pedigree. DSC is seen as an interloper and an upstart even though it's not doing anything more or less dramatic with retcons or canon-violation than either of those two, or TNG for that matter.
I still think Discovery's a bit different in just how liberal it is with canon, but you bring up an interesting point. I actually think there's been 8-9 "interpretations" of Star Trek through it's history. TOS/TAS (maybe shouldn't be together, but I see them as close enough), TMP, Movies 2-6, TNG seasons 1-2, Berman era (you could argue DS9/Enterprise S3 is separate, which is why I said 8 or 9), Enterprise season 4, Kelvin Timeline, and Discovery.
Also, I have to say it's a bit humbling to have this thread get so big, as someone who's been on forums for over 20 years, I don't think I've ever made a thread with this many posts.
To me, what is canon is the basic mythology of Star Trek. To me, THE UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY is about the last adventure of the TOS crew paving the way for a new era that will be seen in TNG's time, it's not about CRT monitors somehow making a comeback in the 23rd century.
Yeah I care about big stuff. Like, if DSC said Kirk was never captain of the Enterprise, that would raise my eyebrow. But Klingon foreheads, tech upgrades, assorted visual aesthetics, and who knew about cloaks and when....I just can't care about that.
That's about where I'm at. Star Trek doesn't need to feel like a universe that I could live in some day. Because, it's not real.It's fiction. As long as I can suspend disbelief and not have any major tenets violated (like you said, Kirk never commanded the Enterprise, or the Enterprise is a giant purple rectangle, or McCoy was a 23 year old female Edoan) then I'm pretty indifferent.
I don't know how some people make it to the shower in the morning without getting pissed about things given how they seem to think about this shit.
Not since they found and restored an actual original full color print. <--- That's why it's now a part of the TOS syndication package.
ENT 2151 - 2155 (finale in 2161)
ST: D 2256 -??
TOS 2265 (Where No Man Has gone Before) - 2269 ["The Gage" takes place circa 2254)
(So about 110 years between ENT and TOS on average - 100 years before ST: D)
TOS Feature Films (2279 -228?)
TNG 2264 - 2271
(So again about 100 years from TOS - 75-78 years from the TOS end of the Feature Films)
Those do fit in continuity, though.
Good for them.
There is a difference between tonal differences and themes and factual differences.
Not according to the rules the DSC team put in place (set in prime universe, part of canon, etc.).
They fit as well as DISCO does. The changes that DISCO has done are similar to the changes TMP did and was supposed to be canonically within 3 to 10 years.
Yes, very good for them. None of us have to like it, watch it or accept it.
The few oddities with TMP were reconciled. DSC has shown no indication of doing that. (Also, TMP changed the Klingons after a only a handful of stories; DSC changes thing after years of materials have set things up so that we know it doesn't work from day one.)
They have the right to do what they will, just as we have the right to point out when things don't add up, like how they're talking out of both sides of their mouths when it comes to handling Star Trek continuity on the show.
Sweet Gods are we still whining on the Klingon 's 4th or 5th make up change?
We didn't have that for TMP. Didn't get an explanation for decades. DISCO is showcasing the Klingon Empire in TOS that was never seen before.
One, there are explanations that can be used, and have been bantered about for years, including GR's own about the Klingons in TMP.
Two, continuity is important in broad strokes, but the details are more fluid, like @Balok's Decoy and @MakeshiftPython alluded to for themselves. That the world continuing forward is important but some details will change, and I've mentioned several before.
The degree that it "doesn't fit" will vary from person to person.
Oh, please. If people still bash on Abrams after nearly nine years, do you think the latest makeup change will escape unscathed?
I had a sad hope that at 50 pages in the argument would be more than "Teh klingons no look like that!".
Keep the dream alive, man. I also have the hope that "Jar Jar Abrams" would never be used again. I have to dream.
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