USS Enterprise (eventually) on Discovery?

[INACTIVEUSS Einstein]

If you ascribe to Trek's age old policy of "what happens on screen, is canon", then like @RedDwarf said, the evolutionary history of the Constitution class is now something like this:

It's getting silly, but for those of us who grew up with the Encyclopedia, or the many people who construct models and love the starship aspect of fandom, I guess it's not impossible they are the same design being refit several times, even if highly implausible by today's standard.

For those here who don't know, there was already a difference between Pike's Enterprise and Kirk's, which we generally attribute to a refit. I guess maybe it underwent another one in between.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Front-ish view showing the bridge window:

 

[Longinus]

If you ascribe to Trek's age old policy of "what happens on screen, is canon", then like @RedDwarf said, the evolutionary history of the Constitution class is now something like this:

It's getting silly, but for those of us who grew up with the Encyclopedia, or the many people who construct models and love the starship aspect of fandom, I guess it's not impossible they are the same design being refit several times, even if highly implausible by today's standard.

For those here who don't know, there was already a difference between Pike's Enterprise and Kirk's, which we generally attribute to a refit. I guess maybe it underwent another one in between.

I'm willing to ignore the Cage look (it was just one episode) and let the look seen in DIS to retcon that. I'm also willing to accept most of the changes seen here 'really were there' in the TOS era, though I really cannot do that for the pylons and the shortened neck. Those are too big changes to pass my 'if I squint, does it look the same' test.

 

[Gonzo]

Prob

I'm willing to ignore the Cage look (it was just one episode) and let the look seen in DIS to retcon that. I'm also willing to accept most of the changes seen here 'really were there' in the TOS era, though I really cannot do that for the pylons and the shortened neck. Those are too big changes to pass my 'if I squint, does it look the same' test.

Best option seems to be ignore the cage and ignore the Shenzou for best results, it's not perfect but its a much smoothers transition.

 

[Jadeb]

OK, maybe it's not all "fanwank." Maybe fanwank is more a threshold. It's seasoning, like salt. Too little and the series is bland. Too much and it's unpalatable. Us fans like, appreciate, and have come to expect nods and tie-ins to what has come before.

Maybe "fannish" is the word. Discovery strikes me as very fannish. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, though it can have a cumulative effect that becomes toxic if you're not careful.

 

[INACTIVEUSS Einstein]

I'm willing to ignore the Cage look (it was just one episode) and let the look seen in DIS to retcon that. I'm also willing to accept most of the changes seen here 'really were there' in the TOS era, though I really cannot do that for the pylons and the shortened neck. Those are too big changes to pass my 'if I squint, does it look the same' test.

I agree, except I cant ignore The Cage, I mean, like a lot of people it's the first episode I watch if I start a TOS re-watch, and maybe footage from The Cage is used in The Menagarie too. One thing to consider is that people have paid thousands in models and toys over the years, invested in a hobby where the period of TOS is different, so a full retcon also has a financial aspect too, beyond canon.

 

[XCV330]

I saw Ralph Fiennes as Coriolanus. That is the version of Shakespeare's play that I know. It was so good I now declare it to be iconic.
Therefore it is canon. From now on all people playing the title character must look like Ralph Fiennes, and must wear his beret. Coriolanus wears a beret. It was on the screen. It's canon.

Also all James Bonds are Timothy Dalton, drive a V8 Vantage Volante and wear a Tag Heur, even if they are Daniel Craig wearing an Omega and driving a DB10. If they do any of those latter things it is a canon violation.
Also if he is in a computer generated yacht owned by Emilion Largo, it must be exactly 85.65 meters bow to stern, the length of the Original Disco Volante (not that horrible hobbile NONCANNON PUKEFEST NSNA). It does not matter if they call it Disco Volante and it looks like it and performs all the necessary parts of the plot.

If these things are changed I will make endless infuriated forum posting, reddit diatribes, screams to heaven, and slice my scalp off with abalone shells as an offering to the Studios. I shall forgo exercise so that I may let anyone who cares to read the full scope of my feelings about it on Youtube. I am a perfectly reasonable fan, at least in Trek.

 

[mos6507]

I'm willing to ignore the Cage look (it was just one episode) and let the look seen in DIS to retcon that. I'm also willing to accept most of the changes seen here 'really were there' in the TOS era, though I really cannot do that for the pylons and the shortened neck. Those are too big changes to pass my 'if I squint, does it look the same' test.

Considering my extremely low opinion of the aesthetic sense in today's crop of artists in Hollywood these days, I'd say the tweaked Enterprise on Discovery is the best anyone could have hoped for. In fact I'd go so far as to say that if the JJ Prise had looked like that...that there would have been far less backlash against the Kelvin-verse.

The only thing from that angle that looks out of place to me is the extended "tab" beyond the shuttlebay doors. Other than that it shifts the Enterprise to be closer to the refit, which I can live with. The nacelles are actually IN PROPORTION to the rest of the ship and not huge pontoons and it's not as overdone with extraneous swoops and nurnies as the JJ Prise was.

 

[BillJ]

I guess they needed to change the Enterprise so they can sell it to me for the umpteenth time!

 

[Longinus]

I agree, except I cant ignore The Cage, I mean, like a lot of people it's the first episode I watch if I start a TOS re-watch, and maybe footage from The Cage is used in The Menagarie too.

And the Cage design is used in some other episodes too, even though it should't, so unless we assume that they occasionally refit and defit the ship mid-episode we have to ignore some of the footage regardless.

 

[BillJ]

The only thing from that angle that looks out of place to me is the extended "tab" beyond the shuttlebay doors. Other than that it shifts the Enterprise to be closer to the refit, which I can live with. The nacelles are actually IN PROPORTION to the rest of the ship and not huge pontoons and it's not as overdone with extraneous swoops and nurnies as the JJ Prise was.

The shortened neck and struts kill a lot of the grace found in the original for me.

 

[INACTIVEUSS Einstein]

And the Cage design is used in some other episodes too, even though it should't, so unless we assume that they occasionally refit and defit the ship mid-episode we have to ignore some of the footage regardless.

I've not rewatched the non-remastered episodes for a long time now, so forgot about that.

 

[Noname Given]

Seriously. There have been legit people in other corners of the internet say that DSC isn't canon ONLY because of the way the Enterprise looked last night. I cannot comprehend or understand how they expected any different. I grew up on TNG, it's "my Star Trek." But shit, even alot of TNG is looking horribly dated these days. Especially the first 2 seasons. If they changed the interior or exterior of the Enterprise-D, I'd understand it needed to be done. I personally think the exterior still looks modern, except for the nacelles.

Along those lines, though, I think the Enterprise-E, which is 23 years old, could be dropped into a modern film today with no changes at all. It might turn out to be a timeless design. John Eaves was ahead of his time.

Again, my issue is the Production staff went out of their way to claim "No ST: D is set in the Kirk/Spock Star Trek Universe/Timeframe..."; when asked by fans. They were adamant "This isn't a reboot; we know canon, trust us; it all works out in the end..."
^^^
With Pike's 1701 Enterprise looking the way it does in the shot, there's NO WAY this isn't a reboot on one or more levels. Again, I'm a BIG TOS fan; an d if the producers had been up front and said, "Well, we're re imagining some of the look..." I'd be 100% fine with what they did here. I agree that this re-imagined version of the 1701 is better/more faithful to the original then the JJ-Prise (and I like the JJ Prise too); but at least Abrams was upfront in saying "Hey it's a reboot..."

And yes, I could accept the new designs and internal layouts of various ships they had never shown previously as part of tyhe original universe; but if you'rte going to show a ship from that time and claim it's not a reboot, said ship[ SHOULD LOOK LIKE IT DID on the screen during that time (as was the case with DS9 - "Trials and Tribble-ations" and ENT - "In a Mirror Darkly".

In other words don't outright lie to fans and then sit there and not expect some original series fans to be upset. Now that I know ST: D is a reboot, I have zero issue with the design. I just with the production staff was upfront and honest with fans who asked said question NUMEROUS TIMES and got the same disingenuous answer.

 

[Tuskin38]

The sizes of the ships has been altered also,

No proof yet that the Enterprise is any bigger.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Nope.

Say again?

 

[Tuskin38]

Say again?

No proof yet that the Enterprise is any bigger. We don't know how far away it is from the Discovery.

 

[Tuskin38]

In other words don't outright lie to fans

They haven't though.

 

[Mudd]

 

[DigificWriter]

Again, my issue is the Production staff went out of their way to claim "No ST: D is set in the Kirk/Spock Star Trek Universe/Timeframe when asked by fans. They were adamant "This isn't a reboot; we know canon, trust us; it all works out in the end..."
^^^
With Pike's 1701 Enterprise looking the way it does in the shot, there's NO WAY this isn't a reboot on one or more levels.

Visual aesthetics are not Canon.

 

[Mudd]

I don't vouch for the provenance of that.

It looks about 90 percent right. There are obvious differences.

This could be completely fan work. it could be a design that was further revised.

If it's fan work, it was done quickly and with quite a bit of skill. In some respects this is more interesting than what was shown.