He shouldn't be charged with murder but he should go back to Earth to tell his story. PS I have no life.
That's effing hillarious.
Should Tyler be charged with Dr. Culber's murder?
- Thread starter Tuvix5675
- Start date
That's effing hillarious.
It kinda does.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive
Besides, why would you choose nonsensical interpretation when more sensible one perfectly suffices?
Indeed. The condition was intentionally induced. Deosn't mean the end result isn't a split personality disorder.
That is not what is stated. Yes, real Tyler was a person, and then they 'recreated' his persona in Voq. It is not the same Tyler, it is a copy existing in Voq's mind.
Please someone who believes that they somehow transferred Tyler's 'soul' (or whatever you want to call this essence of one's being) into another body, answer this: if the Klingons had the ability to do this, then why not just transfer Voq's 'soul' into Tyler's body instead? No need to this insane plastic surgery, and the results are much harder to detect.
I'm not choosing a nonsensical interpretation. I'm choosing what the people who made the show says what happened.
And the result isn't the same. Not when considering criminal charges or individual ownership of actions.
A split personality disorder is specific to a person creating or compartmentalizing a personality. That personality from the persons own noggin and own personality.
Tyler is his own person, so is voq, neither created the other, neither has ownership or responsibility for the other. Its not basically multiple personality disorder or essentially multiple personality disorder, that's a pretty big distinction.
That's what's kept my head spinning from the beginning, trying to wrap my brains around this ridiculous surgery. I still believe that is probably what happened, but the only good answer I could come up with was: so that we might have the gory, bloody scenes of torture and vivisection to torment Ash Tyler for several episodes.
They didn't say that.
Indeed. Which is why we are discussing it in the first place.
Yes. Except in this instance this condition was artificially induced.
I disagree. Real Tyler is dead. L'Rell created a copy of his persona in Voq's mind. Nothing seen in the show contradicts this.
I mean it is possible that this is what motivated the writers, but in my interpretation doing this makes at least a little bit of sense.
Nothing seen contradicting doesn't make you right. By that logic we can say all sorts of thins but yes, very clearly stated in the show is the contradiction.
They took tyler and shoved him into the same noggin as voq. Youre making a lot of assumptions and misconstruing the very nature of what a schizophrenic condition that creates a multiple personality disorder is.
A multiple peesonality disorder is created by one person and one noggin,
These are two different people shoved into one noggin. It isn't the same thing.
And nothing in the show contradicts this.
It is not stated.
They don't say that. They use word 'recreate.' Original Tyler is dead.
I am not. There is one person and one head. The other person (original Tyler) is dead. You're confused by the fact that one of the split personalities is created to mimic once real person. It is still not really that person. It is like if one of your split personalities is Napoleon, it doesn't mean you're somehow possessed by the spirit of real Napoleon Bonaparte.
And that is what we'e disagreeing about.
Except if L'Rell could have really transferred Tyler into Voq's head, she could have done the reverse too, and this whole insane plastic surgery thing wouldn't have made even the tiny bit of sense it otherwise does.
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Your quibbling over words. The fact is they make a clear distinction that tyler, a different person was shoved into the same noggin as voq, a different person. Via dna genetics or whatever to recreate this or that, they took tyler, a different person and shoved him in the same noggin as voq, a different person.
What they are talking about is science fiction. You keep trying to rationalize this based on science reality, but its science fiction.
Nothing in the show conteadicts this.
Bottom line is Tylok killed someone. If a dog killed someone his psychology would mean shit. The dog would be removed from harming others. I really don't care that Tylok was this or that. It is no excuse.
Sheer nonsense to think that he would be retained in service on a Starfleet vessel.
Sheer nonsense to think that he would be retained in service on a Starfleet vessel.
I am quibbling over words because they don't say what you think they say.
They don't say that.
Being able to induce split personality and transplant memories is science fiction, being able to transplant souls is magic.
I have said several time what contradicts this. If L'Rell had this sort of soul swapping magic you suggest, her actions wouldn't make any sense.
I've never said soul swapping. You keep saying that, not I.
Argue it all they want. Its what was written In and pretty much going to be treated that way.
Interesting how it was interpreted. I thought they flayed Voq and Tyler for that matter. They then retooled Voq and popped him into Tyler's skin. Then they layered Tyler's mind onto Voq's like a cloak to be removed once Voq was triggered to re-emerge. However unlike others I don't believe Voq came through until he was in the presence of Mirror Voq and the old tongue awakened him.
When he killed Culber he was Ash. He instinctively killed a threat but he was Tyler. When he tried to kill Burnham that is when he went full Klingon. That is when Voq took control. Yet no matter how you slice and dice it someone died by his hand.
When he killed Culber he was Ash. He instinctively killed a threat but he was Tyler. When he tried to kill Burnham that is when he went full Klingon. That is when Voq took control. Yet no matter how you slice and dice it someone died by his hand.
'Soul', 'self' call it what you want. This is what you assume that happened amounts to, and the bottom line is that if such transfer is possible, L'Rell's actions don't make sense.
It is not what was written. But this is going nowhere.
Yes, in this situation the split personality model makes more sense too. There are not really two separate minds, so a state where the person is kinda confused mix is possible. We saw how 'Tyler' started to remember what was happened to him and later how Voq's instincts started to affect him. It was his original personality attempting to reassert itself. If there was really two completely separate beings in one head, I would expect clearer on/off situation where he always is clearly one or the other.
What does that mean though? Say that was the case should he be allowed to remain as active member of the crew? He's screwed up in every sense of the word. And he murdered someone in his Tyler phase and tried to murder someone in his Voq phase. He's a freak.
Again, I'm not assuming anything. You simply disagree with me, but no I'm not "assuming" I said nothing of soul this or soul that. Yes you and I disagreeing is going nowhere.
You do realise the Alcubierre drive doesn't actually work even in theory and was based on him watching Star Trek?
IMO.
He shouldn't remain a member of the crew.
Regardless of whether it was Tyler, Voq or a combination of the two that killed Culber I think the key point of the scenario might be included in the English common law definition of murder:
when a person, of sound memory and discretion, unlawfully kills any reasonable creature in being and under the king's peace, with malice aforethought, either express or implied.
He wasn't of 'sound memory and discretion' and 'malice aforethought' is debatable as it appeared to be an 'in the moment' impulsive action.
So IMO he should be removed from Discovery and taken somewhere where his (potentially dangerous) issues can be dealt with.
