Spoilers Some Tyler Questions

[plynch]

I've watched the whole show so far, and am still a bit confused.

So when I'm looking at Ash Tyler, that was Voq's body that was then much altered, yes?

Then who was Tyler before? (Ie, where'd Klingons get his engrams to implant?) What happened to that body?

If I'm right so far, Why did the Klingon woman not zap out the added Ash engrams and be left with Voq's personality in a weird body? Wouldn't she prefer to have something of Voq left? His personality was in there first, right? (Unless I'm wrong.)

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[dahj]

What happened to that body?

Probably a nice evening meal...

 

[The Wormhole]

Ash Tyler apparently was an actual Starfleet officer the Klingons captured at Binary Stars and apparently elected not to eat him. He and Voq underwent some weird body merging procedure. Or something.

 

[KennyB]

He said that body was flayed and they used the skin to cover Voq's altered body.

flay
fleɪ/
verb
past tense: flayed; past participle: flayed

1. strip the skin off (a corpse or carcass).
   "the captured general was flayed alive"
   synonyms: skin, strip the skin off;
   technicalexcoriate
   "one shoulder had been flayed to reveal the muscles"
   • strip (the skin) off a corpse or carcass.
     "she flayed the white skin from the flesh"
   • whip or beat (someone) so harshly as to remove their skin.
     "he flayed them viciously with a branch"

 

[Mad Jack Wolfe]

Klingon guy in a human suit. It's the one zipper Burnham overlooked.

Edited to add: I just realised that this is terribly similar to what the Slitheen did on Doctor Who. Except they used a tissue compressor to fit into their human suits. And it made them fart incessantly.

 

[SJA]

Probably a nice evening meal...

Tasted like chicken apparently....

 

[cultcross]

When i understand it, I'll let you know.

 

[XCV330]

humans and klingons are compatible enough to have offspring who in tern can apparently sometimes have viable offspring

L'Rell took Voq, reworked his innerds, shortend his bones, shaved his fingertips, removed whatever genitalia Klingons have extra of (#TomParisGetsItDone), replaced with tyler's skin and presumably eyes, vocal cords (?), did amazing Klingon non-anesthetic medical wizardry to get the whole thing done, and put Tyler's memories over Voqs. Voq should have emerged to consciousness and disposed of the Ash-ness but Voq remained Ashy because love and apparently L'Rell who had an affair with Voq and may or may not have had something going on with Ash (or its just his memories messing up on him) gave up on the experiment when the objective failed and turned Voq off. Whatever the new thing is has Ash Tyler's personality but can access Voq's old memories.

By the time of Trouble with Tribbles they have the science figured out but apparently Tribbles can tell the difference.

I think.

 

[plynch]

Wow; I missed the flay part. A Tyler suit on a Voq skeleton. Voq/Tyler is remarkably unscarred from what I can see.

2. Maybe the farting is why no one sat by him in the mess hall.

Ok, I think I got it, though. A Tyler suit. Thanks.

 

[XCV330]

Wow; I missed the flay part. A Tyler suit on a Voq skeleton. Voq/Tyler is remarkably unscarred from what I can see.

2. Maybe the farting is why no one sat by him in the mess hall.

Ok, I think I got it, though. A Tyler suit. Thanks.

They mentioned he was scarred but that the initial medical work assumed it was from Klingon torture.

 

[The Lonely Man]

The onscreen explanation we were given leaves a lot to be desired. Even for Trek this Voq/Tyler thing is a Technobabble too far.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

My understanding is that after the Battle of the Bygone Stars, the heir to House T'Kia and new Dreamon Empire Aerosmith S'te-Von was surgically merged with the body of Rockstarfleet officer Tyler who was subjected to brutal skin stretching, mouth widening, highlight removal; liver, kidney, and lung transplants to correct for a lifetime of heavy drug, tobacco and alcohol abuse, and was forced to make creepy highly sexualized music videos starring his own daughter, which broke him down mentally. At last, his face was merged with a CGI template of actress Dana Delaney and given an additional Justice League Superman CGI lip touchup to remove his mustache and create the perfect hybrid infiltrator, Steven Tyler. Behold!

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[Longinus]

If I'm right so far, Why did the Klingon woman not zap out the added Ash engrams and be left with Voq's personality in a weird body? Wouldn't she prefer to have something of Voq left? His personality was in there first, right?

I'm puzzled by this too. The rest of this is just really bad technobabble, but this is inexplicable character behaviour.

 

[seigezunt]

I wondered for a long time if the real Ash was the guy who got curbed by the Klingons at the beginning of "Choose Your Pain."

 

[Mad Jack Wolfe]

They mentioned he was scarred but that the initial medical work assumed it was from Klingon torture.

Hidden zippers.

 

[matthunter]

I'm puzzled by this too. The rest of this is just really bad technobabble, but this is inexplicable character behaviour.

I think the implication is that Voq - once his mind was restored - found being trapped his "human" form a torment, hence trying to claw himself open. Since she has no way now to restore him and his mission failed, L'rell chose a mercy-kill of the personality that couldn't live with the situation, whilst preserving his memories at least through "Ash".

 

[plynch]

That makes sense.
Also, I need to listen better, because I missed that scarring-due-to-torture explanation.
So -- it's Voq's actual brain in the body that has Tyler-skin?

 

[Mad Jack Wolfe]

That makes sense.
Also, I need to listen better, because I missed that scarring-due-to-torture explanation.
So -- it's Voq's actual brain in the body that has Tyler-skin?

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[Timo]

I've watched the whole show so far, and am still a bit confused.

So when I'm looking at Ash Tyler, that was Voq's body that was then much altered, yes?

There's explicit talk of Voq's body being altered, so yes. Doesn't mean bits of it (say, the face) wouldn't have come from the real Tyler, though.

Then who was Tyler before? (Ie, where'd Klingons get his engrams to implant?) What happened to that body?

They ultimately explicate the cover story was true - the real Tyler was captured at the Battle of Binaries. And his body has probably been eaten by targs, save for those bits L'Rell found useful for perfecting her creation.

If I'm right so far, Why did the Klingon woman not zap out the added Ash engrams and be left with Voq's personality in a weird body? Wouldn't she prefer to have something of Voq left? His personality was in there first, right?

Culber speaks of the Tyler personality being cunningly overlaid on something more fundamental, which is why he didn't catch it originally when looking for a hidden personality buried under the fundamental Tyler. So I do think Voq had dibs, and a stronger claim.

But the thing is, nobody really knows what the hell L'Rell did with her creation on that medbed. She waved her hands and chanted words, and suddenly we get a man who speaks like Ash Tyler. Which is what we had before the operation, too...

For all we know, every single remnant of Tyler is now gone, and only Voq lives. It's just that he has learned to imitate Tyler by now, and OTOH if anybody sees something amiss, this can be attributed to the trauma everybody now knows about.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Wulfsa]

I think at the end Tyler is the new Klingon Leader, and all those fanboys want to look like him, thats the reason for the klingons in TOS