Spoilers What happened the night the Ben turned on Luke

[Saul]

With Palpatine Anakin was immediately aware that this was the Sith Lord that had brought so much crap down on everyone over the last 13 years. There was a definite threat, Palpatine had actually done bad stuff. I think you cannot compare him to a person, a boy, who was asleep and had not done anything yet.

Also, you know there's a world of difference between a *momentary*, damn near reflexive thought that comes and goes in a second, and a premeditated attempted murder, right?

I also know that if I walk around with a loaded gun that something might happen or it might be used, accidentally or premeditated. Taking the loaded gun out and holding it to someone's head for a second is not ok in my book even if momentary. Luke had the time to do that. He took the lightsaber off his belt and ignited it over his nephew's head. Way not cool.

 

[Reverend]

^Ah, so you're being deliberately obtuse then? Good to know.

 

[fireproof78]

With Palpatine Anakin was immediately aware that this was the Sith Lord that had brought so much crap down on everyone over the last 13 years. There was a definite threat, Palpatine had actually done bad stuff. I think you cannot compare him to a person, a boy, who was asleep and had not done anything yet.

Not entirely, since Ben immediately burned the temple down. So, clearly something was going on.

 

[Iamnotspock]

I also know that if I walk around with a loaded gun that something might happen or it might be used, accidentally or premeditated. Taking the loaded gun out and holding it to someone's head for a second is not ok in my book even if momentary. Luke had the time to do that. He took the lightsaber off his belt and ignited it over his nephew's head. Way not cool.

Let's say I genuinely have psychic powers and I sense the evil in a sleeping young Adolf Hitler. Momentarily overwhelmed by the sensation, I instinctively draw my gun, stare at it for two seconds without holding it to his head, and then Hitler wakes up, draws his own gun from under his pillow and tries to shoot me. Unless we possess psychic powers, it's not easy to say what any of us would do in that situation.

 

[EnderAKH]

I also know that if I walk around with a loaded gun that something might happen or it might be used, accidentally or premeditated. Taking the loaded gun out and holding it to someone's head for a second is not ok in my book even if momentary.

I would argue that in your metaphor, Luke pulled the gun out of it's holster and cocked it at his side, he didn't hold it to Ben's head. Still not great to wake up to, but not exactly an irrevocable act, and one done primarily out of instinct.

 

[11Alive]

Let's say I genuinely have psychic powers and I sense the evil in a sleeping young Adolf Hitler. Momentarily overwhelmed by the sensation, I instinctively draw my gun, stare at it for two seconds without holding it to his head, and then Hitler wakes up, draws his own gun from under his pillow and tries to shoot me. Unless we possess psychic powers, it's not easy to say what any of us would do in that situation.

More relevant hypothetical: Every intelligence agency in the world warns Kim Jong Un is ready to push his nuclear button. You're there outside a UN summit when he's leaving after negotiations have broken down. A bomb goes off in an assassination attempt, but it fails, leaving him among the wounded but alive. (Think Captain America: Civil War.) Among the debris is a gun dropped by one of his fallen bodyguards or a UN guard. You can pick it up and use it, saving untold millions of lives. I think most of us would seriously consider it, at least for a moment. Saul would say Kim hasn't pushed the button yet.

 

[Saul]

I would argue that in your metaphor, Luke pulled the gun out of it's holster and cocked it at his side, he didn't hold it to Ben's head. Still not great to wake up to, but not exactly an irrevocable act, and one done primarily out of instinct.

I see what you are saying but if it was instinctual I would imagine all that happening very fast. Not slowly and quietly taking the lightsaber off his waist and then turning it on.

More relevant hypothetical: Every intelligence agency in the world warns Kim Jong Un is ready to push his nuclear button. You're there outside a UN summit when he's leaving after negotiations have broken down. A bomb goes off in an assassination attempt, but it fails, leaving him among the wounded but alive. (Think Captain America: Civil War.) Among the debris is a gun dropped by one of his fallen bodyguards or a UN guard. You can pick it up and use it, saving untold millions of lives. I think most of us would seriously consider it, at least for a moment. Saul would say Kim hasn't pushed the button yet.

Yes, I would, but I was talking about a young Kim lying in a dorm bed in Switzerland, not one who had become the man he is today and even if i took him out in your hypothetical situation whose to say that wouldn't make things worse or lead directly to a disaster in the same way Luke's actions with Ben led to a disaster. A man using violence as a resort is a man who has no options. Luke had other options and was at least wise enough to know it.

 

[fireproof78]

I see what you are saying but if it was instinctual I would imagine all that happening very fast. Not slowly and quietly taking the lightsaber off his waist and then turning it on.

Given that it happens in memory, I would be reluctant to take that at exactly face value.

Regardless, Luke looked, saw the Dark Side, reacted instinctively, just like he was trained. Again, Anakin did it to Palpatine, Obi-Wan did it when he sensed Vader's presence, and on and on. It's part of Jedi training, part of what the Jedi needed to unlearn.

 

[Jedi_Master]

Considering as Kylo was complicit in the death of billions and directly responsible for the death of untold thousands of people, I say Luke's first instincts were dead on...