Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x12 - "Vaulting Ambition"

[Crazy Eddie]

You know what I mean ffs. Which episode did you find more compelling as a piece of fictional entertainment

I had started writing a post explaining why that is false equivalence since one is a ten-second moment in an episode that isn't actually about torture and the other is an extended scene that is literally about PSYCHOLOGICAL torture...

But then I realized it's a trick question and the correct answer is

ANY EPISODE THAT INVOLVES ME NOT HAVING TO LISTEN TO YOUR POINTLESS BITCHING

 

[Longinus]

I don't think Terrans give that much weight to any official lines of succession though; granted, adopting your chosen heir was a Roman custom, but they loved military coups d'état just as much... just look at the list of Emperors being deposed by the legions or assassinated by their own praetorians. Seeing how Hoshi ascended to the throne, or how Archer, Kirk and basically every Mirror Starfleet captain planned to do this, I think it's safe to say it's ultimately Starfleet that decides who gets the crown. Bully or bribe a large enough part of the fleet into supporting you and it is yours. If Burnham herself didn't have a flotilla of at least 4-5 Connies, most captains probably wouldn't care about her at all beyond seeing her as just another obstacle in their own path to glory.

The Terran Empire seems to be like Rome, in which the position of the Emperor wasn't technically hereditary, though often in practice it was.

 

[SJGardner]

I'm waiting for the epic fight scene between Lorca and Empress Philippa Georgiou Augustus Iaponius Centaurus Crosby Stills Nash Young Merrill Lynch Pierce Sacco Vanzetti.

You forgot putting her inherited dynasty name of Gambolputty de von Ausfern-schplenden-schlitter-crasscrenbon-fried-digger-dingle-dangle-dongle-dungle-burstein-von-knacker-thrasher-apple-banger-horowitz-ticolensic-grander-knotty-spelltinkle-grandlich-grumblemeyer-spelterwasser-kurstlich-himbleeisen-bahnwagen-gutenabend-bitte-ein-nürnburger-bratwustle-gerspurten-mitz-weimache-luber-hundsfut-gumberaber-shönedanker-kalbsfleisch-mittler-aucher von Hautkopft of Ulm at the end. A very common mistake.

 

[cultcross]

I had started writing a post explaining why that is false equivalence since one is a ten-second moment in an episode that isn't actually about torture and the other is an extended scene that is literally about PSYCHOLOGICAL torture...

But then I realized it's a trick question and the correct answer is

ANY EPISODE THAT INVOLVES ME NOT HAVING TO LISTEN TO YOUR POINTLESS BITCHING

Warning for flaming, comments to PM.

Tone it done everyone.

 

[plynch]

Lorca isn't evil. Sure, he's deceitful, manipulative, and conniving, but he's on a mission, and clearly has not become a "villain." he's trying to overthrow the cannibalistic queen, and install our very own virtuous Burnham on the throne.

..it is her destiny...

OH NO! I just yelled. Because you are right. I like this. I just don't like knowing it ahead of time like Voqler and MU Lorca.

 

[XCV330]

OH NO! I just yelled. Because you are right. I like this. I just don't like knowing it ahead of time like Voqler and MU Lorca.

Got to admit, it does make sense.

 

[indranee]

You make a valid point here... but FWIW, you undercut it with your final sentence. Saying that people are basing a particular critique on assumptions not in evidence from the show itself is perfectly reasonable. Throwing in a cheap shot at "SJW shit," on the other hand, shoots your credibility in the foot. Basically the only people who use the term "SJW" as a pejorative epithet are those comfortable marking themselves as anti-feminist, anti-progressive, and socially conservative... and in a way that's conspicuously dismissive of other views, rather than engaging them. IOW, basically the opposite of the values involved in appreciating Star Trek.

Well I'm a feminist, progressive, AND far from socially conservative, and I still calls 'em when I sees 'em -- as in SJW shit. Enough is enough. If I see SJWs taking things too fucking far, I reserve the right to call them on their bullshit, and IDGAF how YOU think I've undercut my arguments.

 

[plynch]

Lorca isn't evil. Sure, he's deceitful, manipulative, and conniving, but he's on a mission, and clearly has not become a "villain." he's trying to overthrow the cannibalistic queen, and install our very own virtuous Burnham on the throne.

..it is her destiny...

Seriously, screenshot this with timestamp on it, frame it and put it above the mantle. I'll be truly surprised if is ain't it.

 

[XCV330]

Last week's title was from Macbeth and was an apt quote if the Emperor saw Lorca as someone whose reckless desire for power had got the better of him. This week's though comes from the Tempest:

She that is queen of Tunis; she that dwells
Ten leagues beyond man's life; she that from Naples
Can have no note, unless the sun were post--
The man i' the moon's too slow--till new-born chins
Be rough and razorable; she that--from whom?
We all were sea-swallow'd, though some cast again,
And by that destiny to perform an act
Whereof what's past is prologue, what to come
In yours and my discharge.

Burnham is the key to all of this, somehow.

 

[eschaton]

Yeah, I'm growing convinced this Sunday is essentially the denouement of the Act 2. There are two more episodes left, but they were the "tacked on two" and will basically be standalones filling in some bits of the season that need more attention

 

[lawman]

Well I'm a feminist, progressive, AND far from socially conservative, and I still calls 'em when I sees 'em -- as in SJW shit. Enough is enough. If I see SJWs taking things too fucking far, I reserve the right to call them on their bullshit, and IDGAF how YOU think I've undercut my arguments.

Well, more power to you then for both your principles and your outspoken opposition to bullshit. Nevertheless, I'm still saying that your choice of terminology is going to convey misleading impressions of who you are and what you're talking about. It's like someone using the hashtag "MAGA"... it's not actually about America being great, it's about marking oneself out as a Trump supporter. It's all about the acronym's connotations, and it's pointless to pretend those don't exist.

 

[indranee]

Well, more power to you then for both your principles and your outspoken opposition to bullshit. Nevertheless, I'm still saying that your choice of terminology is going to convey misleading impressions of who you are and what you're talking about. It's like someone using the hashtag "MAGA"... it's not actually about America being great, it's about marking oneself out as a Trump supporter. It's all about the acronym's connotations, and it's pointless to pretend those don't exist.

Did I not make myself clear? I'm not in a popularity contest here on TrekBBS and IDGAF what you or anyone thinks of my political views.

 

[lawman]

Did I say it was about popularity? Alienate whoever you want. Nonetheless, I assume that if you take the trouble to post something (political or otherwise), you at least want people to understand clearly where you're coming from and what you're trying to say. If someone's going to get pissed off at you, it should at least be for accurate reasons, right?

 

[indranee]

Did I say it was about popularity? Alienate whoever you want. Nonetheless, I assume that if you take the trouble to post something (political or otherwise), you at least want people to understand clearly where you're coming from and what you're trying to say. If someone's going to get pissed off at you, it should at least be for accurate reasons, right?

This will be my LAST POST on this. Again, I don't care and no, I don't have to explain my reasons behind why I think people go to far with the "sjw shit". Deal with it.

 

[Rahul]

This will be my LAST POST on this. Again, I don't care and no, I don't have to explain my reasons behind why I think people go to far with the "sjw shit". Deal with it.

"SJW" really has become the new Goodwin's law, hasn't it?
Whenever we see someone unironically typing these three letters in a conversation, we know everything else surrounding them is pretty much bullshit...

 

[lawman]

This will be my LAST POST on this. Again, I don't care and no, I don't have to explain my reasons behind why I think people go to far with the "sjw shit". Deal with it.

So, you had a point you thought was worth making, and yet it's not important to you at all if you weren't being clear, if people reading it were liable to misinterpret you, or if you needlessly pissed people off in the process. Gotcha. I wasn't trying to make an enemy in my initial reply to you, but I guess we're all here for different reasons...

 

[jaime]

This will be my LAST POST on this. Again, I don't care and no, I don't have to explain my reasons behind why I think people go to far with the "sjw shit". Deal with it.

SJW MRA PC....one does get tired of acronyms, but also the things that inspired them.

 

[Captain Killy]

She clearly suspects Lorca is her Lorca. She quotes his time and space threat, and keeps him in the agoniser despite the suggestion he is not her Lorca. She may even outright know for certain, depending on what’s in the Defiant logs. She may just delight in manipulating people, and she is clearly doing that in every scene she has with Burnham. Turning her against Lorca is good insurance...if her suspicions are correct about him, and his betrayal being a constant, then she takes a weapon away from him by turning Michael. She’s an evil emperor. None of those ever work out well in the history stories.

Honestly I don’t get that vibe from The Emperor. Sure, she’s evil. But I think she honorably evil. I don’t know, I like her.

 

[Uhura's Song]

My $0.02, apologies if others said the same downthread:

1) MU Lorca was obsessed with gleaning the secret of the Klingon cloak (winning the war). He had to want to use it vs the Empress. If that is just forgotten, then they dropped the ball a bit. Though Burnham was also a big piece.

2) No way is the Voq/Tyler thing over. L'Rell did something funky there.

3) They have a lot of ground to cover if the next episode is the last MU ep. If the Klingon war is only season 1, they will need at least half an episode in PU to wrap it up.

 

[Cyrus]

3) They have a lot of ground to cover if the next episode is the last MU ep. If the Klingon war is only season 1, they will need at least half an episode in PU to wrap it up.

It is possible that they stay in MU the rest of the season. Here are my guesses:
episode 13 (What's Past is Prologue) will wrap up the MU arc.
episode 14 (The War Without, The War Within) will wrap up the Klingon war in PU.
episode 15 (Will You Take My Hand?) will deal with the aftermath of these. Someone speculated that the title is about Stamets/Culber marriage. I am fine with that since it means Culber comes back.