I doubt anything related to Discovery would be in the Defiant's logs
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x12 - "Vaulting Ambition"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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I doubt anything related to Discovery would be in the Defiant's logs
Predestination paradox, man.
Time travel always works that way, except when it doesn't.
Yup. Other than the ship's existence. Since the ship used a highly classified experimental drive system and frequently engaged in operations during a time of war I doubt anybody but the highest levels of Starfleet Command and Starfleet Intelligence know most of what the Discovery was up to at this time in its history.
I agree with both of you. If they ruin Lorca it will be a huge downer for me. It was refreshing to me to have captain who wasn't PC, and actually felt like what I encounter in the real world quite often with people in positions of authority in high-stress high-stakes jobs. He focused on getting goals done, and wasn't really all that concerned about being seen as everyone's pal.
If they turn him into some uber-villain (because of course in a franchise known for decrying prejudice, anyone from the MU must automatically be EEVIIL, right?) I will be highly disappointed. If Isaacs is written out of the show, I will be much less inclined to keep paying to watch it.
Not knowing the circumstances of the loss of the Buran, it's hard to answer that question. Picard had a similar thing in his past with the Stargazer, so there is precedent.
Although the very existence of the Defiant should indicate to the Discovery crew that the Federation survives the Klingon war.
Yep. They now know that the Federation will still exist along with Starfleet about a decade into their future. Everything they do from that point forward should give them greater confidence that the war will end and on terms favorable to the Federation.
Except for his interest in weaponry, winning in war, wartime skills, etc. are all hints of his origin in the MU. Not shock value.
Yeah, well the focus is on the spore drive. That is the big plot of this season. Maybe next season as they are all questioning the captaincy of Lorca, they will open up all those old experiments to see which ones were on the up and up and which ones were questionable.
Others have addressed some of these, but anyway:
Georgiou and the death spinner: a quick visual display of compartmentalizing critical information. But the writers have said they did just think that the idea of the death spinner was just an awesome idea the came up with on the fly.
F-word: It's not shocking, just out of character for uptight Starfleet types. Yeah, Discovery is stretching its wings a little by doing things it can't do on network television, but the use of "fuck" in the scene was perfect in emphasizing the interesting science and providing a good moment between Tilly and the grumpy Stamets. Also, since then Discovery has been peppering the show with slightly more "gritty" language but it's not like they have gone all Tarantino (even Tarantino won't go full Tarantino in his proported movie - it is still Star Trek afterall).
Voq: storyline not done
Lorca: storyline not done
Jumped the shark: Yeah, I get the twists with Voq and Lorca are not to your liking, but this does not qualify as a jumping the shark moment. You either need a show that is declining in quality, struggling to maintain its relevancy which then takes a ridiculous gamble, or you need a show where you can clearly determine the point at which it headed in a downward direction never to recover. The show clearly isn't declining to qualify for the first condition, nor do we have the perspective to claim the second condition, so what we have are just two plot twists you don't agree with.
I agree that there was a bit of bad production here. I think it stems from, oddly, an effort to save money. The show takes shortcuts in not showing graphics of ships (in this case the Charon, earlier they didn't show the Connor). Maybe it stems from some editing they are forced to do later on when bits of an episode aren't working or when they are going over budget, but maybe they had to remove a reference to a different ship, so they cut out the visual and just had Burnham paper over the missing element via the dialog "why can't we see it?"
Because of the poor editing of the scene it does make it hard to figure out. But the conclusion is: The Charon warped to the rebel base system to ensure it was destroyed (since Georgiou already knew Burnham was workign with Lorca, she couldn't trust them to wipe out the rebels). The Charon has advanced technology, based on tech from the Defiant, that the emperiors keep for themselves to ensure their dominance, including its massive size, the "sun"-based power system, long range torpedoes, and a stealthy aspect. It was only 27,000,000 km away (1 minute 30 sec at warp 1, too far to beam), but the Shenzhou couldn't see it.
Nowhere is there any evidence Lorca caused anything to do with the "attack" or death of the pilot. He already requested Burnham's shuttle to be routed to him, there was no need to attack anyone.
It seems evident that STarfleet reviewed the events of the Buran and concluded that Lorca did the best he could in the situation and was still eligible for command. We dont' know more details than that.
The same way Picard got the Fedration Flagship (1701-D) after losing the U.S.S. Stargazer to a Ferengi cargo ship. (And remember that even that decision was ultimately incorrect as the Ferengi managed to salvage/restore her)
[In all seriousness it's a time of war - and Lorca's record may have shown him a better Combat officer; so after passing psych evals (which he did) - they need all the Combat Captains they have.]
Seems pretty straightforward:
Starfleet is militarizing to counter the Klingon threat and finds it can build ships faster than it can find Captains. Lorca is, based on what we've seen, capable, with a moderately scientific mind and possessing strong motivational leadership. Discovery was not intended to be on the front lines until the spore drive was ready for fleet use, which meant that Lorca's assignment was to oversee a group of polite scientists and occassionally fire a phaser if the ship ends up to close to the lines.
Starfleet is militarizing to counter the Klingon threat and finds it can build ships faster than it can find Captains. Lorca is, based on what we've seen, capable, with a moderately scientific mind and possessing strong motivational leadership. Discovery was not intended to be on the front lines until the spore drive was ready for fleet use, which meant that Lorca's assignment was to oversee a group of polite scientists and occassionally fire a phaser if the ship ends up to close to the lines.
The famous Captain Bligh was given a number of commands after the HMS Bounty mutiny. He was a brilliant navigator, maybe the greatest ever, but probably not a great leader, having yet another rebellion against him later in life. The British needed captains. Same with Starfleet. probably.
NASA gave Gus Grissom a seat on Gemini and command of Apollo 1 even though they had reservations on whether he'd panicked and blown the hatch on his Mercury capsule (he did not, but that was not proven until decades after his tragic death in Apollo 1). He was still the best of the best and they needed him.
NASA gave Gus Grissom a seat on Gemini and command of Apollo 1 even though they had reservations on whether he'd panicked and blown the hatch on his Mercury capsule (he did not, but that was not proven until decades after his tragic death in Apollo 1). He was still the best of the best and they needed him.
He probably realized at one point that he could change history so drastically that it was possible for him to return back home, only to find out he never existed at all. If our crew was able to download the ISS Discovery's crew manifest from a random rebel computer core, he himself could've found his personnel file in the Defiant's records and learn at the very least that he was the captain of the USS Discovery and fought against the Klingons in the war, even if its mission specifics were classified. If he knew this much, he might have decided it would be too risky to stray too far from what was written.
This leads me to wonder again if his heroism was all just a means to an end, or it was at least partially genuine. And, of course, whether he started out already more compassionate than your garden-variety Terran captain, or just grew into it with time.
He didn't have to go back and save Pahvo. He's trusted the conn to non-human officers. He's more complicated than "I am from the mirror universe, i am wicked" type character they've made the Emperor out to be. That complication is what makes him so compelling.
I think we have more complications to see from Lorca than has been implied or stated so far. My inkling is that he is a good leader, and more of a rebel than a usurper in the MU. That is why he has a bunch of followers, not because he is ambitious for power (everyone else in the MU is like that, no one else has followers, most just have clients a la Rome) but because he wants something more for the Empire.
As for Tyler/Voq and L'Rell's storyline: it is my prediction that MU Voq is still alive and will end up crossing back over to the Prime Universe to help end the Klingon war and unify the houses.
Oh, god, I hadn't thought about that.
Similar to the Roman Empire, it seems succession is not typically by blood, but by adoption. The emperor takes on an unrelated heir, who eventually takes the throne.
Burnham is clearly that heir. By himself, Lorca would have no claim - he's just a random captain. But if he's the...consort...of the heir apparent, he can wield power nonetheless.
I'm waiting for the epic fight scene between Lorca and Empress Philippa Georgiou Augustus Iaponius Centaurus Crosby Stills Nash Young Merrill Lynch Pierce Sacco Vanzetti.
I don't think Terrans give that much weight to any official lines of succession though; granted, adopting your chosen heir was a Roman custom, but they loved military coups d'état just as much... just look at the list of Emperors being deposed by the legions or assassinated by their own praetorians. Seeing how Hoshi ascended to the throne, or how Archer, Kirk and basically every Mirror Starfleet captain planned to do this, I think it's safe to say it's ultimately Starfleet that decides who gets the crown. Bully or bribe a large enough part of the fleet into supporting you and it is yours. If Burnham herself didn't have a flotilla of at least 4-5 Connies, most captains probably wouldn't care about her at all beyond seeing her as just another obstacle in their own path to glory.
Honestly? I didn't "enjoy" Picard getting tortured at all. But considering what a gigantic asshole Lorca is, ten seconds of him in an agonizer booth kind of made me smile.
