Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x12 - "Vaulting Ambition"

[Lakenheath 72]

I am not sure how much can be learned from comparing the first season of Discovery vs TNG. Discovery is serialised storytelling, while TNG was procedural storytelling. They have different aims and the stories work to those aims.

The biggest issue I have with the series is the characters. I read a review of the episode at Popular Mechanics and I agree with their assessment of the series.

When Stamets and Culber say their goodbyes, something they were cheated in the real world, it should have been emotionally devastating. But because Discovery doesn’t really develop its characters, their motivations, or their relationships very well, I couldn’t drum up any reaction to the scene whatsoever. Obviously, I’m supposed to be sad, but that’s not what I was feeling. It felt a lot more like boredom.

And it’s not just Stamets and Culber either, all the relationships in this show feel equally superficial—even the romance at the heart of Discovery, between Tyler and Burnham, feels forced and awkward. The show even sabotages its own main character in the first episode, making it hard to feel much sympathy for the disgraced first officer at all.

Much like the spore network, something deep within the show just isn’t working. With some brilliant flashes (“Despite Yourself” is still very good), the characters in Discovery feel like empty vehicles mindlessly carrying us to the next big plot twist.

They don’t feel like close friends, and that missing piece leaves behind a show that feels like a reflection of what Star Trek should be.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cul...-trek-discovery-episode-12-vaulting-ambition/

 

[cbl1]

And each episode would end with the crew making an idiom-laden comment which Burnham, due to her Vulcan upbringing, would not understand and/or take literally and they would share a laugh at her expense. Maybe one of them could also end with Saru making a dry observation on unfathomable human behavior for variety.

Lorca to Burnham - "while those villagers may have been centuries behind us in technology they sure could grill a good steak"
Burnham to Lorca - "I don't see the pleasure in eating meat"
Lorca to Burnham and Saru - "That's not what you said when you ate Saru's nephew"

 

[Vger23]

Then perhaps they should not have tried to shove a Klingon war arc and mirror universe arc and two of the main characters being different sorts of impostors* in those 15 episodes? Just focus on one thing, and tell that well.

* It is hard to fathom that they really did this. Frankly, it is comical in it's absurdity. And the 'reveals' are in two consecutive episodes even.

It was an over-reach...but unfortunately, this is what Fuller sold CBS on. I think that once the wheels were in motion, even with his departure, it was hard to pull back because I'm sure too much groundwork and preproduction had been done to adjust.

And, as I said, it's hard enough to execute someone else's vision (which is what the current show runners have been left to do), let alone one as complex and overly-layered as this.

Again. relatively speaking, I think they've done a masterful job in spite of all that foolishness.

 

[Vger23]

I am not sure how much can be learned from comparing the first season of Discovery vs TNG. Discovery is serialised storytelling, while TNG was procedural storytelling. They have different aims and the stories work to those aims.

A lot can be learned. One was virtual dog shit that, given an opportunity, found itself and its rhythm and was successful. The other (DSC), under equally as much or more chaos and strife, has been vastly superior in terms of engagement and execution at the same phase of its lifecycle.

Same is true of all the other Star Trek spin-offs to date. They were all inconsistent and, more often, just plain bad through the first 12-24 episodes.

If anything, the fact that DSC is serialized means it has even more of a handicap when compared with TNG, because it's harder to judge all the things people are upset about / complaining about wtihout seeing how it all fits into the broader story.

 

[Vger23]

Oh, by the way, to me it seems pretty damn unethical to erase the Voq personality, even though he obviously was a murderous scum. He was the original personality and they basically just killed him, or at least lobotomised him, without his consent or a court order. (Not that any proper court would ever allow that.)

L'Rell did that. Voq is a Klingon citizen, not a member of the Federation.

As has been demonstrated many times, Klingons function under a very different set of rules and ethics from Humans or other Federation species.

Besides, we don't know the full extent of L'Rell's procedure. We don't know what Voq understood his risks were.

Too much to speculate on there.

 

[Longinus]

L'Rell did that. Voq is a Klingon citizen, not a member of the Federation.

Sure. But she was on a Federation ship and Saru allowed it.

 

[Vger23]

Sure. But she was on a Federation ship and Saru allowed it.

War is hell, bro.

Besides, we don't know what the end result will be of this procedure.

 

[Nerys Myk]

This is the format, NOT the mission statement.

Again: ER is a medical drama in a hospital. The "mission statement" would be "to save lifes". The "format" would be "interpersonal relationships result in drama".

"To boldy go where no man has gone before" is Star Trek's mission statement. End of story. "Action adventure story" is the format.

There's a huuuuuuuge different between the two you seem unable to grasp.

Nope. Not sure what more I can say. Writers/Directors guide, books about the show with quotes from the creator(s) and the actual content of the episodes say more about the ship's mission and what the show was about more than a monologue or a Roddenberry preaching to the choir college tour ever did. I'm no Sherlock Holmes, but I think my observational skills are keen enough to glean how the show presented the ship's mission by watching the show and reading about it's production and development. Sure, it's not as warm and fuzzy as the monologue, but it's pretty cut and dry.

Perhaps you're confusing the ideology and themes presented on the show with the fictional mission parameters of the ship.

 

[SJGardner]

Sure. But she was on a Federation ship and Saru allowed it.

To be fair, he probably didn't know what exactly she was doing. He might have thought she was just stabilizing Voq's condition. I might have overlooked but I don't remember it being implied he knew one consciousness inevitably had to be exorcised.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

All of the big "twists" have been fairly predictable.

C'mon writers... CHALLENGE US!

I'm still waiting for the reveal that Stamets is a proto-Q, using the mycellian network for his shenanigans

 

[Vger23]

To be fair, he probably didn't know what exactly she was doing. He might have thought she was just stabilizing Voq's condition. I might have overlooked but I don't remember it being implied he knew one consciousness inevitably had to be exorcised.

I was distinctly under the impression that Saru felt she was going to "undo" the effects of the procedure...not necessarily kill one of the personalities. (If that's indeed what happened)

 

[Nerys Myk]

She killed Tyvoq!!!!!!

 

[SJGardner]

I was distinctly under the impression that Saru felt she was going to "undo" the effects of the procedure...not necessarily kill one of the personalities. (If that's indeed what happened)

"Undo" it... i stand corrected. It could definitely be taken as killing one of the personalities, but on the other hand, it's still vague enough to keep Saru in the dark about what it exactly means.

Now that my memory's been refreshed, I think I was under the impression that she would exorcise Tyler and not Voq so I ended up genuinely surprised when it happened the other way around.

 

[Vger23]

She killed Tyvoq!!!!!!

 

[jaime]

She killed Tyvoq!!!!!!

Saru is the New Janeway. The Tuvix battles will begin again.

 

[Rahul]

Nope. Not sure what more I can say. Writers/Directors guide, books about the show with quotes from the creator(s) and the actual content of the episodes say more about the ship's mission and what the show was about more than a monologue or a Roddenberry preaching to the choir college tour ever did. I'm no Sherlock Holmes, but I think my observational skills are keen enough to glean how the show presented the ship's mission by watching the show and reading about it's production and development. Sure, it's not as warm and fuzzy as the monologue, but it's pretty cut and dry.

Perhaps you're confusing the ideology and themes presented on the show with the fictional mission parameters of the ship.

Surely, Sherlock you are not.
Otherwise, you might have observed the mission statement directly being stated during the credits.

 

[jaime]

Lol.
So...prediction after prediction is true...the mushrooms are also dying ahead of schedule...
The Klingon future is subsumed under Human (how prophetic for the future alliance, and even the augment virus running rife and making them all look Human in TOS) and that needs fixing...
Now, if Burnham plus everyone into her mind meld machine on the Disco, keeps them stable as they use interphasic space to get home, DSC could still go its anthology format and drop back into Prime (and it is Prime, Vulcan is there and this series is balls deep in its ENT continuity at this point.) roughly at the tail end of the TNG era...
Oh, the morally different Lorca turns out to be MU, so no, Starfleet isn’t being rewritten as harder than it was, so that’s another thing put to bed.

Episode is a tad fascist/sexist in its over the top choices for imagery on the Terran Empire, though it may be a result of quick shorthand. But it was terribly amusing. The whole show is like Tyler in reverse...draw people in with the promise of edgy, (and it’s still full of grim visuals etc...) but it turns out, it’s the same Trek after all underneath.
Thank goodness for that.
Goodness knows how dead doctor got into the network,but that’s easy handwavium, and the eye thing is a bit janky...but works well enough. Maybe Smiley took eyedrops before popping over, or DS9 was just the right kind of gloomy.

 

[Noname Given]

Surely, Sherlock you are not.
Otherwise, you might have observed the mission statement directly being stated during the credits.

Problem is: Captain James T. Kirk is FAMOUS for saying one thing while doing another. (Just watch the show.)

 

[Rahul]

You're right, gore isn't edgy. It's 2018. Gore is the standard for Television Series. Most people don't feel shocked seeing fake blood, innards made of CGI and plastic cadavers anymore. Nothing is more "vanilla" than CSI and they had gore all the time, for example. I'm really not seeing any problems here. It's a good thing Discovery is playing safe and isn't trying to be "edgy"

Besides, what can really be done about it ? If they have a scene where blades cut through people's heads, what they could have showed us instead ? That the victims just had some bruises or some small entry wounds ? That would make no sense at all.

'CSI' might by "predictable" and "by-the-numbers", but the level of gore depicted there is certainly not "vanilla". And I'm not too fond of Trek trying to emulate that. This completely contempt for everything sexually/nudity, while being completely fine with depictions of utterly depraved violence at the same time is an American custom I'll never understand.

The Terrans are basically Nazis. And Nazis had a thing for ridiculous looking man-made objects. Look at Speer's plans for Volkshalle. It would be one of the most ugly things that Humans ever built and apparently Hitler was very fond of it.

We never had scenes where MU Human characters look directly at strong light sources while they are on our Universe or sequences where they look at any unusual light sources from their Universe, like the Charon's Core or whatever that thing is. Also, maybe they have found a cure for light sensitivity in the future. There's no Canon contradiction here.

So, if Lorca is evil he can't be three dimensional ? Only characters that have good intentions are allowed to be complex ? No. Just no.

Besides, we still don't know Lorca's endgame, since the Mirror Universe Arc isn't over. We can't be sure he's just doing this in order to be promoted. Maybe that's it or maybe it isn't, we just need to be patient and see the story's conclusion.

Since when Fascists are not "cheesy" and "over-the-top" ? They march on the streets wearing very silly uniforms, they have obscure esoteric symbols, weird social rituals they want to force down on people, they believe in some mystic bull crap about the Aryan Race and still are proud believers of pseudosciences like Racial Biology...

I mean, have you never looked at White Nationalist clowns like Richard Spencer or Augustus Invictus ? Fascists are weirdos. You can't blame DSC writers for that. The Mirror Universe is a very realistic portrayal of the perfect world far-righters want for themselves.

You aren't overly familiar with facism/Nazi Germany, aren't you?
Hint: They weren't cannibals. Nor would killing your superiour earn you a promotion. This has nothing to do with commentary on real issue. This is purely amped-up shock value for entertainment.

Also: The Charon's design isn't ridiculous for it's architecture. That's fine. It's ridiculous for that it's carring a miniature sun around. Not an energy field. Or a light pull. A literally friggin' downsized sun! Solar eruptions included. Ugh.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Surely, Sherlock you are not.
Otherwise, you might have observed the mission statement directly being stated during the credits.

Sorry, as lovely as that is it doesn't hold up to the evidence. (The show its self) If the show was just the credits you might have a point.