People, people- this thread was supposed to be a game, taking people who aren't Mary Sues, and jokingly pretending that they are. Then again, if I know anything about forum threads, it's that they never stay on-topic.
The most overpowered, overrated, insufferable Mary Sue in all of "Star Trek" is...
- Thread starter WarpTenLizard
- Start date
No argument here on Freeman. Matter of fact, Gerrold wrote himself into his novel The Galactic Whirlpool in a much more pivotal way.
I pictured the utter-alien in your avatar impassively saying that while Luke milked him. I just thought you should know.
Wait... WAT??? (Looks up Mira Romaine's actress.) Oh. I thought you literally meant that was Sherri Lewis. Never mind. EDIT: But Lewis WROTE Romanie? Okay, it is now my head-canon that Romaine is descended from a famous Jewish puppeteer in the 20th century.
Quite the opposite, and I resent the implication. Plenty of very competent female characters in Trek, chief of them Jadzia and Seven who aren't mary sues.
Oh, and a small request: can you please refrain from using "female" as a noun?
I'm sure that wasn't your intention, but it's quite frequent for online misogynists to use "females" as a snarl word. Particularly grating when they use "females" but "men" rather than "males".
Yet, all we heard about her during the early episodes was that she was just the best at everything. She's supposedly the smartest person Saru's ever met, but that's an informed attribute, for instance.
My point was that, whilst some "Mary Sue" accusations are unfounded, it doesn't mean all are.
I'm a woman and a feminist. Do you really think that describes me? Also, as far as I'm concerned, "Mary Sue" is a gender-neutral term.
I've seen it used and used it for male characters.
Even when the character doesn't even come close to meeting some of the basic requirements of being a Mary Sue. For example, Michael Burnham is the exact opposite of everyone gushing over her.
Well, except for
- Tilly, who almost instantly falls in admiration of her.
- Tyler, who instantly falls in love with her.
- Saru, who still greatly respects her despite some (very brief) initial resentment.
- Lorca, who somehow gleans how essential she is and recruits her on the basis of... nothing?
- Stamets, who grows to trust her very quickly.
- ...
Her being hated is again an informed attribute, we're told everyone hates her, but don't really see anyone acting negatively towards her, apart from a very short while during ep3.
- Tyler, who instantly falls in love with her.
- Saru, who still greatly respects her despite some (very brief) initial resentment.
- Lorca, who somehow gleans how essential she is and recruits her on the basis of... nothing?
- Stamets, who grows to trust her very quickly.
- ...
Her being hated is again an informed attribute, we're told everyone hates her, but don't really see anyone acting negatively towards her, apart from a very short while during ep3.
Wesley's more of a "wunderkind" archetype. He's not good at everything, just unrealistically (and very annoyingly) smart.
But at least he's useless in a fight, looks goofy and is socially awkward, none of which we can say about Michael.
If you want to make a case for a TNG Mary Sue, Data would be a better fit than Wesley, tbh. Especially in the movies.
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I don't remember that. Which character was it?
I wonder if Mira has a little puppet named Lambchop tucked away in her duffel?
WTF? Of course Jadzia is a Mary Sue. She's liked by everyone, super-duper-DUPER competent at everything, no matter how varied, and she can basically outdrink and outfight Klingon warriors. Julian and Worf were in love with her, and while Quark wasn't, he liked that she was an avid participant at the dabo tables.
Basically the only ones who didn't like her were the female Klingons at her wedding to Worf - and that was because Jadzia had no regard for Klingon traditions.
Specs.
I'd completely forgotten about him. I'll have to re-read that book some time.
In TOS novels the worst Mary Sue was in "Death's Angel" - make the book unreadable for me.
In the series there are probably no real Mary Sues except for the Outrageous Okona. I can't understand how everyone liked the character - charming rogue that he was.
But if we're having fun and I'm ignoring the fact that every is supposed to love the Mary Sues.
Wesley - GR admitted wonder child self-incarnation
Geordi - Between seasons he suddenly becomes the nest engineer in Starfleet eva
Guinan - Knows all but works as a bartender
7of9 - Knows everything and everyone fancies her.
But, Sisko gave Jadzia a hard talking-to about how in the wrong she was in that wedding episode. ("CURZON was ambassador! You can't expect her to treat you as ambassador just because you have his memories...") Jadzia may have been competent at most everything, but she had a good reason to be, having eight previous lifespans; a Mary Sue would be someone who *astounds* people at everything she or he tries.
I can see why you might find Jadzia Sue-ish, as she frankly wasn't all that well developed, which paired with her being the babe of the station looks kind of bad. But I found her fun, and she was called out on her wrong behavior by her friends enough times and while being competent at most things, was not really exceptional at most of those things. I don't think she quite counts as a Mary Sue (except maybe for her being able to take on Klingons in a fight; but that's hardly the first time that alien species strength levels were inconsistent on "Star Trek.")
I don't know if this is sarcasm or not but I actually 100% agree.
I mean, isn't the ultimate Mary Sue...well...Q?
I mean, they even rhyme.
Q.
Mary Sue.
Q.
Mary Sue.
Q.
Also, Vulcans in general and Spock in particular. Sure, they got taken down a peg in Enterprise, but in TOS they were Roddenberry's platonic ideal of a species. Long lived, super strong, completely rational (even atheistic) but still bought into new age mysticism. Only thing missing was free love instead of that 7 year itch deal.
As for Spock...I mean...he pulled a literal Jesus.
I mean, they even rhyme.
Q.
Mary Sue.
Q.
Mary Sue.
Q.
Also, Vulcans in general and Spock in particular. Sure, they got taken down a peg in Enterprise, but in TOS they were Roddenberry's platonic ideal of a species. Long lived, super strong, completely rational (even atheistic) but still bought into new age mysticism. Only thing missing was free love instead of that 7 year itch deal.
As for Spock...I mean...he pulled a literal Jesus.
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You mean Wesley Crusher -- a character not from D.S.9. who had a snowball's chance in Hell of appearing on there?
Spot! OMG, such a Mary Sue. (Or maybe a Marty Stu? See #3.)
1) Fan-favorite character Data catered to Spot's every furry little whim.
2) The cat was obviously a shape-shifter, changing species between early appearances (a long-haired Somali) and later ones (a orange tabby).
3) Spot could also change gender at will, spending some years as a tom before deciding it was time to reproduce and becoming a female.
4) Spot put formidable First Officer Riker in Sickbay with the swipe of one paw, and was never punished for assaulting an officer.
5) Famously tough Security Chief Worf also needed medical attention because of Spot. Again, Spot got off scot-free.
6) The entire crew listened when Spot's virtues were recounted in an epic sonnet.
7) With the entire Enterprise crashed, and innocent goldfish left for dead, whether or not Spot had survived became an important plot point.
1) Fan-favorite character Data catered to Spot's every furry little whim.
2) The cat was obviously a shape-shifter, changing species between early appearances (a long-haired Somali) and later ones (a orange tabby).
3) Spot could also change gender at will, spending some years as a tom before deciding it was time to reproduce and becoming a female.
4) Spot put formidable First Officer Riker in Sickbay with the swipe of one paw, and was never punished for assaulting an officer.
5) Famously tough Security Chief Worf also needed medical attention because of Spot. Again, Spot got off scot-free.
6) The entire crew listened when Spot's virtues were recounted in an epic sonnet.
7) With the entire Enterprise crashed, and innocent goldfish left for dead, whether or not Spot had survived became an important plot point.
On another note (I tried to edit my last post to include this, but couldn't figure out how):
Yep. The Menagerie, a long-running early Trek zine out of Kalamazoo, Michigan. Once upon a time, I actually owned the issue the fic "A Trekkie's Tale" appeared in.
Let me save you some time.
Yep. The Menagerie, a long-running early Trek zine out of Kalamazoo, Michigan. Once upon a time, I actually owned the issue the fic "A Trekkie's Tale" appeared in.
Let me save you some time.
Warptenlizard said:
Timewalker said:
The sentence:
"He took away time from more compelling and relatable characters like Wesley Crusher" may mean that: "He took away time from more compelling and relatable characters like Wesley Crusher DID" ,
Timewalker said:
The sentence:
"He took away time from more compelling and relatable characters like Wesley Crusher" may mean that: "He took away time from more compelling and relatable characters like Wesley Crusher DID" ,
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