The most overpowered, overrated, insufferable Mary Sue in all of "Star Trek" is...

[WarpTenLizard]

Not even remotely...seriously "Michael Burnham is a Mary Sue" has become a trope in its own right with pretty much no basis in reality.

To be fair, I can understand why--on paper at least--she might remind people of a fanfic Mary Sue; a human raised by Spock's family does sound like a wish fulfillment fanfic. BUT, like others have pointed out, that alone does not a Mary Sue make. And as I have said multiple times, I'm not very familiar with Michael or STD so I can't say about her one way or another.

 

[WarpTenLizard]

View attachment 3728

This thread is just a humorous game for people who are tired of the "Mary Sue" label being handed out like candy. We're all pretending to hate characters we in fact like, and coming up with humorous "reasons" that they are "Mary Sues."

 

[Spot261]

And I just feel like adding that, at this point at least, I have no opinion of it. I've never watched a full episode of "Discovery," and I am as interested in Michael Burnam as I am in learning a detailed history of my vacuum cleaner. (Nothing against Micahel or STD though.)

Since I've never seen STD, don't care about Michael Burnam, and I find the idea of Spock having an adopted human sister we've never heard of tolerable at best, I'll take your word for it. I couldn't care less about Micahel at this point. (This thread was more inspired by Seven of Nine haters trying to label her a "Mary Sue" for her Borg superpowers, ignoring that her entire character revolves around her flaws and being corrected rightfully by the other characters.)

And as I have said multiple times, I'm not very familiar with Michael or STD so I can't say about her one way or another.

I'm er, glad to hear that.

I do hope you are not alone and every single person who doesn't watch Discovery also keeps us up to date about their disinterest whenever it gets mentioned.

 

[WarpTenLizard]

I'm er, glad to hear that.

I do hope you are not alone and every single person who doesn't watch Discovery also keeps us up to date about their disinterest whenever it gets mentioned.

Hi there Spot! I guess I shouldn't be surprised that Data taught his cat how to operate a computer. XDDDD

It's a controversial show, so I feel like I must make my (lack of) stance known. Especially when talking about Mary Sues in "Star Trek."

 

[Spot261]

Hi there Spot! I guess I shouldn't be surprised that Data taught his cat how to operate a computer. XDDDD

It's a controversial show, so I feel like I must make my (lack of) stance known. Especially when talking about Mary Sues in "Star Trek."

Up to you, seems like it could get a bit like hard work doing it on a board where the show is mentioned literally hundreds of times an hour though.

Yeah you are right it is a pretty controversial show, although so were TOS, TNG and ENT when they first aired, I shouldn't worry about having to qualify your stance ad infinitum

 

[JRoss]

Let's see, objectively.

For TOS I can't say that any of the characters are truly Mary Sues.

TNG, yeah, it's Wesley. Super-capable genius surrounded by incompetent characters who exist to make him look smarter? Yes. Special relationship to the more iconic characters? Yes. He was clearly teased as Picard's illegitimate son in early episodes. Ultra special destiny because he is so awesome? Yes. The writers did a lot to fix that with the episode where he and his classmates get in trouble for that stupid stunt.

DS9. They did a fantastic job at making the main characters all flawed and realistic. Maybe Bashier? But not really. In the books Ezri definitely qualifies, but onscreen she was fantastic.

Voyager. The Doctor, but not as bad as it could have been. Always presented as morally superior to the others. It was mainly hisstealing of the spotlight from more intersting characters. I wouldn't agree with anyone who says Seven of Nine. The character idea is rock solid. Basically Data/Spock but with a twist. Jeri Ryan played her very well. The unfortunate problem wasn't with the character herself, but in the situations they put her, including far too great a focus on the new personwhen the rest of tthe cast should have gotten equal timeto shine. Oh, and that catsuit. Very disrespectful and cheesecake.

STD. Burnham by a country mile. Can't be bothered to look up the name of the posters saying she's not. Oh well. But here's why.

Spoiler: Discovery

Special relationship with iconic characters? Oh, yes, the adopted sister of Spock, essentially. Referred to as hyper-competent without that being shown on screen? Definitely. In the first episode when she tells Georgiu basically "You know I'm right. I've been right every time in the last seven years", but her actions onscreen are wrong. Portrayed as the unfailing hero? Yeah. Even though she does very stupid stuff (nerve pinch on the captain, idiotic and obvious mutiny attempt, ill-advised away team assault on T'Kuvma, yadda yadda) she's still somehow morally in the right. Super abilities? Somehow can mindmeld over interstellar distances. Other characters are incompetent just to make her look good? Tori from BSG just goes ahead and poke sthe bear against Burnham's advice and dies immediately. This is just from the first four episodes.

It's a shame because it's a waste of Sonequa Martin-Green.

 

[1001001]

Folks, let's PLEASE not post DSC spoilers in this forum.

 

[Timewalker]

8.) He took away time from more compelling and relatable characters like Wesley Crusher

That's understandable, since Wesley Crusher was never in DS9.

Its cliche, but I gotta say Wesley Crusher immediately comes to mind. No character is so much "I'm always right" as Wesley Crusher. That is until he comes back from the Academy miserable; that's when he's allowed character flaws. And he literally is destined to be the Starchild McSpace Jesus of Star Trek, evolving into super-powered infinity over time and space with the Traveler. But this thread is probably not well served if every answer were Wesley Crusher.

Oh, you mean like Kes.

Hm. I can't think of any Mary Sue characters in televised TOS, but there are numerous ones in TOS fiction. The most egregious ones that come to mind are Mandala Flynn (The Entropy Effect) and Piper (Battlestations and Dreadnought).

With TNG, of course the answer is Wesley Crusher.

With DS9... definitely Jadzia. Holy crap, it doesn't matter what the situation was, she was an expert on whatever was required to do, and those rambling anecdotes about Curzon... I finally got the impression that they should have just had somebody play Curzon Dax as a regular character and spared us Terry Farrell's bad acting and whiny interviews complaining about anyone else getting a storyline.

 

[WarpTenLizard]

Oh, you mean like Kes.

Kes definitely annoys me with Mary Sue vibes, at least in some episodes (like "Before and After," despite the fact that I love that episode). And the worst thing is that on paper, Kes's background should make for a VERY flawed, interesting character. But none of that was ever explored. Instead everyone on the ship just instantly liked her (despite her species indirectly being the reason for Voyager being stranded); she had no problem socializing with the crew (despite her background and biology); and all of her personality traits are gushing compliments ("determined/beautiful/kind/brave/strong/powerful
/mysterious...blech.")

BUT, as someone on this site pointed out, Kes overall lacks the spotlight hogging that a true Mary Sue would have, so I'm now on the fence about her Mary Sue status. It's weird, but for how much people gushed over her when she was in the room, no one ever seemed to specifically seek her out to help with a situation where untold mental powers might be useful. It's almost like the other characters (or the writers?) were just trying to make Kes feel good when she was in the room. (Maybe they pitied her for her short lifespan?)

In short, I don't think the writers built Kes up because they were in love with her, I think it was the opposite. She was a convenient tool for the other (male) characters. This perfect, idealistic girl for Neelix to be jealous of, and for Tom and the Doc to long for; "mysteirous" powers vague enough for the writers to write themselves out of any corner; and gushing over how great she was almost seems patronizing, like a lazy attempt from the writers that this really is all for the sake of Kes's character, and not just the plot.

("Hey guys, Kes, just discovered another power! We'll just, um, tape that power to the 'fridge, so everyone can see how pretty it is. We really respect you as a character Kes, honest.")

So in the end, I guess that could make Kes...what... an accidental Mary Sue? It's a funny irony, that they made this character annoyingly perfect because they simply never gave a damn about her. Had they cared to actually do something with the frankly interesting backstory she had, she'd be one of the most flawed and lovable characters in "Star Trek" (similar to Trance Gemini from "Andromeda"), and she and Seven could have played off of each other wonderfully.

Jennifer Lein deserved better.

 

[robau]

The EMH IMHO.

It got to a point where they had to invent this idea that gathering too much data was his weakness. In other words he was SO AWESOME that it was actually destroying him. He was going to die from his own AWESOMENESS.

 

[Timewalker]

It got to a point where they had to invent this idea that gathering too much data was his weakness. In other words he was SO AWESOME that it was actually destroying him. He was going to die from his own AWESOMENESS.

It was his weakness because he became obsessed, not because he was "awesome."

It is possible to become addicted to learning/experiencing new things, and there were times when he just tried too many at once and ended up malfunctioning.

 

[Valenti]

Or got supernatural powers for a simple hologram. Obviously not so simple. He did get married at the end to a Human so he was fully functional. He became sentient as well.

 

[DimesDan]

James Kirk.

 

[1001001]

Or got supernatural powers for a simple hologram. Obviously not so simple. He did get married at the end to a Human

Not really.

Admiral Janeway took care of that.

 

[Valenti]

The ep Tinker, Tenor, spy or whatever it was called was interesting. At the end Janeway said she was going to consider his sentient development and capabilities to run the whole ship if necessary (a bunch of him I guess or holograms of the rest} like they did with another ep of escaped holograms that just wanted their freedom and right not to be owned and abused which was very interesting especially a race of holograms or army who just want what Humans take for granted and to fit in.

 

[Orac]

Spock is the Mary Sue, I don't like him because:

1.) He's always right.
2.) He touches people telepathically (what a perv!)
3.) He can pinch people to death.
4.) His haircut is better than mine.
5.) He's cooler than Captain Kirk.
6.) He's cooler than me.
7.) He's never wrong.
8.) He's always right.

 

[GNDN18]

For TOS I can't say that any of the characters are truly Mary Sues.

Lt. Mira Romaine. All she was missing was a sock puppet.

 

[Timewalker]

Lt. Mira Romaine. All she was missing was a sock puppet.
View attachment 3733

Scotty admired her. The rest of them kept referring to her as "the girl."

Given her qualifications and her job, that's pretty damn condescending, and not indicative of her being a Mary Sue.

 

[GNDN18]

Scotty admired her. The rest of them kept referring to her as "the girl."

Given her qualifications and her job, that's pretty damn condescending, and not indicative of her being a Mary Sue.

The character was endowed with a unique ability to communicate with the Zetarians. Romaine was willing to sacrifice her life to save the ship and her lover, and ultimately saved the day with uncharacteristic resiliency and bravery.

Oh, and Shari Lewis wrote the part with the intention of playing Romaine.

Wish fulfillment incarnate.

 

[Timewalker]

The character was endowed with a unique ability to communicate with the Zetarians. Romaine was willing to sacrifice her life to save the ship and her lover, and ultimately saved the day with uncharacteristic resiliency and bravery.

Oh, and Shari Lewis wrote the part with the intention of playing Romaine.

Wish fulfillment incarnate.

She didn't get to, though. But if that's part of the criteria for Mary Sues, then how about Ensign Freeman in "The Trouble With Tribbles"?

David Gerrold said in his book about the making of that episode that he wrote in Ensign Freeman with himself in mind to play the part.