Kickstarter
- Thread starter Valenti
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148 pages is a non-starter for a feature or a two-hour pilot. The first thing any producer will do is tell you to get it down to under 120. The feature I rewrote I brought down from close to 150 pages (the draft before I took over) down to 117, and the producers now want it down to like 100.
Hour-long TV episode scripts should be between 53 and 62 pages, with the former being the target length for networks with commericals (AMC) and the latter streaming (Netflix). The pilot I've just written is 53 because I want to maximize my potential channels for a sale, and it's easier to add material than cut it.
Valenti, you've basically made it impossible for me to read your work because you're voiced so much concern about people lifting your ideas that if I am working on anything which is even remotely similar to one or more elements in your idea I'm basically inviting an accusation. TNG did a story very similar to something I pitched to the show, and I accept that it was simply a coincidence. Given your posts here I'm unconvinced you'd cut me the same slack.
Hour-long TV episode scripts should be between 53 and 62 pages, with the former being the target length for networks with commericals (AMC) and the latter streaming (Netflix). The pilot I've just written is 53 because I want to maximize my potential channels for a sale, and it's easier to add material than cut it.
Valenti, you've basically made it impossible for me to read your work because you're voiced so much concern about people lifting your ideas that if I am working on anything which is even remotely similar to one or more elements in your idea I'm basically inviting an accusation. TNG did a story very similar to something I pitched to the show, and I accept that it was simply a coincidence. Given your posts here I'm unconvinced you'd cut me the same slack.
Suffice to say that my idea/concept is the ultimate expression of it and since it is unique unto itself, it has never been done or postulated so as to be derivated from. I.e., there is no way you can steal my idea other than stealing it's unique expression and I'll tell you it's not a technological invention per say or an extrapolation of such but a character arc premise which is all I can say and it's probably not what you think it is either. It's nothing simple to be sure and includes some large words to describe it but it's worth it because of it's game and universe changing qualities. It's a sentence long and nothing that has been mentioned on these boards ever either or even intimated at. It's a very big idea - bigger than one person or any societies/races.
All of this.
If you are looking to be a professional writer, your script has to confirm to business norms. There is SO much competition, you don't want to give a producer ANY reason to pass. 148 script for a TV pilot is going to be an easy pass. With extremely rare exceptions, they do not do two hour movie pilots anymore.
One of my early learning experiences involved my (now former) manager and a meeting at an agency. The agency wanted me to sign a release, basically saying "if one of our clients writes something similar to your pilot, you can't sue us." My manager balked at me signing it, saying, "there's no protection for you." Duh. But, my manager wanted to talk to the agency.
The meeting disappeared.
Later...and I think after I got rid of that manger... I ran into another agent from the same agency and I asked when what he thought might have happened. He said it simply, "We were probably thought you were litigious."
No one has time to deal or brain space to deal with people who might sue or who are going to be difficult. They certainly don't want to have to deal with potential lawsuits. Maybe my pilot was the next great thing, but, that didn't matter, because I might be a fucking pain in the ass for them. And since I wasn't a big famous writer already making them lots of money, better to pass and work with someone who is easy to work with.
That's why @Maurice is making the right decision to not look at your idea.
Personalites again are more important than ideas. This is what killed Star Trek and Star Wars soon enough. Makes no sense to me. If someone says they have a replacement for Star Trek I would want to read it. If you can resist that that than you're exclusionary and arrogant and I don't want to have anything to do with you either.
Star Trek and Star Wars are doing just fine.
Good luck with your work, I hope you can see it get made.
You guys are hung up on a number. It's an initial rough draft, not the polished script. I'm going to do narrative drafts to resolve issues with the plot, characters and dialog, then I'll do budget drafts to reduce the budget by minimizing the number of sets and visual and special effects shots. My plan was always to get a script done first, regardless of page count, then polish it and tighten it up repeatedly after some feedback from people in my writers group and others. That's why I'm waiting to do further drafts before giving it to @Valenti.
Perhaps, but sci-fi shows have a long history of two-hour pilots, especially Star Trek. TNG, DS9, Voyager, Enterprise and even Discovery all had one. It may be frowned upon in general, but for this type of show, it's kind of a tradition. Now the caveat here is that these are two parters, so if I want to do something like this, I may want to find a good place in the script to divide it into two parts. This might actually work in my favor, though, as it would allow me to split post production into two parts.
It's good to have solid themes and concepts to base your show upon, but at the end of the day, if the show doesn't have anyone you care about, nobody's going to watch it. Look at the most successful sci-fi shows and you'll see an ensemble cast with well-developed characters beloved by the show's fans.
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We`re not, you don`t seem to understand you`re WAY off length.
It's basic Math: you want to do a 2-hour television script, it needs to be about 100 pages because a single page averages about a minute of spoken dialogue, and you still need to have some action in there. That you're close to 50 pages over that means it's much too long and needs to be cut down radically.
Sorry, but you can`t argue this...
It's an unedited rough draft. Of course it's too long. You see an argument where none exists. What is it you think you're telling me that I don't already know? How to subtract? This is exactly what I was talking about then I said that you were "hung up on a number". I'd have never even mentioned the page count if I knew you were going to harp on it like this.
No one's "hung up on a number". We were just advising that 148 pages is overlong to what industry standards are. "Yes, I know, but this was just the first draft and I plan to tighten it down a lot in rewrites," would have sufficed minus the patellar reflex that people are "hung up on a number".
And, honestly, I've yet to meet anyone whose self-proclaimed "paradigm shift"ing idea was anything of the sort. Hyping your work in such a manner during in a pitch meeting might work, but when trying to get people interested in reading your stuff it mostly just sounds arrogant. Well, to me, anyway.
Anyhoo, the topic here was supposed to be about how and when to do a Kickstarter, and we'll drifted way off course on that.
And, honestly, I've yet to meet anyone whose self-proclaimed "paradigm shift"ing idea was anything of the sort. Hyping your work in such a manner during in a pitch meeting might work, but when trying to get people interested in reading your stuff it mostly just sounds arrogant. Well, to me, anyway.
Anyhoo, the topic here was supposed to be about how and when to do a Kickstarter, and we'll drifted way off course on that.
As per this post, the statements you've made here previously re your concerns about having ideas taken, I'm going to have to give it a miss, not least in part because I'm already consulting on two prospective sci-fi TV projects I'm under NDA on, and don't want to risk reading something that might bear a resemblance to one of them.
No, those were two different paragraphs: one referring to the topic length (your script) and the other to the idea of paradigm shifts (Valenti). Sorry if that was not clear.
Harlan Ellison sued for 'In Time' and won. Am I right? Intellectual property is protected by copyrights, right? I realize that ideas are not because two like minded people can come up with the same idea, or am I wrong about this? What happens then? It's you vrs a thousand of their lawyers. Forbidden Planet should have sued Star Trek then. There's a lot of rip offs going on out there with big directors attached.
I'm not in any position to (potentially) judge anyone's script other than as a fan but I have to agree that any professionals reading this thread stay the heck away from Valenti's work. Valenti, your attitude here has been initially very self aggrandizing quickly switching to confrontational with accusatory being the next logical step. If you're that worried that someone will steal your ground breaking never before thought of idea that has no legal protection then you should keep it to yourself instead of asking for help/advice with so many strings attached. You remind me of the Aussie guy who keeps promoting his early 90's Enterprise ship variant and uses adjectives like "beautiful" or "amazing" 100% of the time he mentions it in a sentence and goes off on people if they're just neutral let alone giving constructive criticism.
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