Why do Ransom and Picard hold the same Starfleet rank?

The way I see it is there are basically two options:

a) Unlike the TNG+ scheme, the Early TNG scheme directly follows US naval tradition for flag ranks and the 'no-pip' is equal to Brigadier General or Rear Admiral, Lower Half/Flotilla Admiral (and the semi-canonical one-pip rank thereafter).
b) The Early TNG uniform follows general naval tradition and the 'no-pip' rank corresponds to Commodore, but HQ Staff Officers of that rank are refered to as 'Admiral' by courtesy (similar to how CMDRs and LCDR skippers are 'Captain' if in command of a ship).

Personnally, I favour (b).

 

Just thought of what happened when Kirk took over the Enterprise in the Motion Picture.

KIRK: I'm replacing you as Captain of the Enterprise. You'll stay on as Executive Officer. Temporary grade reduction to Commander.

So it would seem, that at least in this specific case, rank and position are tied, else it wouldn't have been necessary to reduce Decker's rank only because Kirk took over the position as captain (and who was an admiral by rank so would have outranked Decker, anyway). On the other hand (as someone remarked earlier), Scotty became a Captain ('of engineering'), probably without ever commanding a Starship...

 

Reducing Decker in rank didn't have to happen but I suspect it was done because the audiances are idiots who can't grasp a simple concept like Admiral Kirk commanding the ship and the producers wanted to hark back to the days of the series with Captain (not Admiral) Kirk

 

I think that my analysis of Kirk's career is the most logical and reasonable one. However, it is always possible for an alternate version to be correct, and some people might find reason to support one.

In Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (1982) we meet Kirk's son, Doctor David Marcus, son of Doctor Carol Marcus. David was portrayed by Merritt Butrick who was 22 or 23 and who was a high school student in The Square Pegs in 1982-83. But it is usual to earn a PHD a few years older than 22 or 23. Maybe 23rd century education is more advanced, maybe David was precocious, or maybe David was 25 or older.

If David was about 25 in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (1982) which was "fifteen years" after "Space Seed" David should have been about 10 in "Space Seed".

Arbitrarily assuming that David Marcus was aged 25.0 to 30.00 in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (1982), and that Kirk and Khan's "fifteen years" was a very approximate 14.0 to 17.0 years, David would have been about 8.0 to 16.00 in "Space Seed". Arbitrarily assuming that second season episodes like "A Private Little War" and "Obsession" were sometime between 0.5 and 2.0 years after "Space Seed", that would make David about 8.5 to 18.0 in those episodes.

So if David was about 8.5 to 18.0 in "A Private Little War" and "Obsession", he would have been about minus 6.5 to plus 6.0 to when Lieutenant Kirk made a planetary survey "thirteen years" (12.0 to 15.0 years) before "A Private Little War" and about minus 4.5 to plus 8.0 when Lieutenant Kirk and the Farragut were attacked by the space vampire cloud "eleven years" (10.0 to 13.0) before "Obsession".

Thus Dr. David Marcus should have been conceived and born about the same time, give or take a few years, as Lieutenant Kirk was making a planetary survey and the vampire space cloud attacked the starship Farragut with Lieutenant Kirk aboard.

According to my reconstruction of Kirk's career, after the Farragut disaster Kirk returned to Starfleet Academy on Earth as an instructor.

In "Where No Man Has Gone Before":

Many fans prefer to think that the "little blonde lab technician" was the future Dr. Carol Marcus.

Since upperclassmen warned new cadet Mitchell about Lieutenant Kirk's class, Kirk must have been teaching it for at least one academic year. If the course lasted for at least 3 months, it is possible that Mitchell introduced Kirk to the possible Carol Marcus about 1.0 to 1.25 years after Kirk first started teaching at the Academy. Thus David might have been conceived as early as when he would have been about minus 3.5 to plus 9.25 according to my calculations.

Of course it could have taken some time for Kirk to return to Earth and start teaching after the Farragut disaster. Kirk might have taught his class for several years before Mitchell entered the Academy. Kirk and Carol Marcus could have been dating for months or years before David was conceived. Some fans would say that in this hypothetical situation either David was an unusually young PHD or else he must have been conceived before the Farragut disaster.

The time between Lieutenant Kirk's first planetary survey and the Farragut disaster could be between minus one year and five years. Thus it is possible that Ensign Kirk was promoted to lieutenant on the Republic, made his first planetary survey, went to Earth to become an instructor at Starfleet Academy for at least two years, became David Marcus's father, was assigned to the Farragut and got to know Captain Garrovick very well over months or years before the space vampire cloud attacked. But some fans many doubt that there would have been enough time between Kirk's first planetary survey and the Farragut disaster for Kirk to get to know Garrovick very well.

Or possibly Ensign Kirk on the Republic was promoted to lieutenant and went to Earth to teach, fathered David Marcus, and then was assigned to the Farragut under Captain Garrovick before making his first planetary survey. David would have been born a few years earlier.

In "A Private Little War":

Kirk doesn't specify how long he was a lieutenant before making the survey. Thus it is possible that he was a lieutenant and instructor at Starfleet Academy for at least two years before going out into space again.

IMHO the desire to equate Carol Marcus with the "little blonde lab technician" and make enough time for David to become a PHD is the only reason to not have Kirk serve under Captain Garrovick on both the Republic and the Farragut starting when Kirk was commissioned ensign.

 

Kirk demoted himself down to the rank of Captain in TMP as well. After he arrives on the Enterprise, he switches to a uniform with Captain's stripes on it.

 

DS9 is an interesting example - all the main characters were promoted at least once (Nog several times), but also the station itself rose in prominence over the course of 2369-75, so everyone remained stable relative to each other. It was a cunning way to get around the "Why are they still together after seven years?" problem.

Without kicking off another rant about the electoral college, it might be prudent to ask why John Carney is a governor while Bill de Blasio is a mere mayor.

 

The Enterprise was not Picards first command, the Stargazer was and he commanded that ship for 22 years. The fact that he had so much experience was why he was given a Galaxy class ship, they didn't just hand those out to anybody. Janeway also had a number of commands before being given Voyager which at the time was the most advanced ship in Starfleet. It's implied that the Equinox is Ransoms first command and that he was given a promotion to captain due to his scientific ability not his command ability. It's possible that The Equinox was a ship with which Ransom could cut his teeth as a captain before being offered a more prestigious post.

 

Except that there were supposedly a lot of Starfleet ships at the start of the battle, probably fewer by the time that Picard took command. And so I expect that there should have been several admirals commanding various groups of starships in the Federation fleet.

Look at the British and German orders of battle at the Battle of Jutland in 1916 and count how many admirals were in each fleet.

Or maybe after the Battle of Wolf 359 where several admirals may been present and been killed or Borgified Starfleet admirals started turning chicken and staying away from big space battles. That could mean that Hayes was the only admiral present in the battle with the Borg in Star Trek: First Contact. That might explain why Captain Sisko was in command of a fleet of 600 warships in "Sacrifice of Angles", even though if Starfleet followed the practices of modern navies the commander of so vast a fleet should have been several ranks HIGHER than any admiral in history.

 

According to Shattered, Voyager was in fact Janeway's first command.

 

It's mentioned in 'The Raven' that Janeway met Tuvok because she failed to follow proper tactical procedure on her first command which was about 10 years prior to her taking command of Voyager.

 

Which introduces a whole other level of silliness that being a captain is somehow the best position in Starfleet.

 

Nah, they thought we were too stupid to comprehend a man with the rank of Captain holding the position of Commander. Cuz Captains are only on ships, dur.

 

this is one of those rare cases (he says, as if he actually could remember other cases) where I tend to agree with TPTB

if you don't have any idea about military ranks and positions, it might actually be confusing ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

This was covered a few pages (and half a year) back: the command being spoken of there cannot have been a starship command, because

1) the lowly Lieutenant Tuvok could not chide the commander of a starship for her performance, and
2) commanding a starship is not a singular performance that could be critiqued in this fashion.

Rather, young Janeway may have commanded an away team of some color, much like Spock's "first command" in TOS was over a team of half a dozen in a shuttlecraft. Being dedicated to sciences, she would be less concerned with the tactical aspects of a planetary foray, and might not meet the approval of a man who held seniority over her at Lieutenant rank by a wide margin (Tuvok had probably held that rank since the previous century).

So "Revulsion" need not be in conflict with "Shattered" where Janeway herself calls the Voyager her first command.

Timo Saloniemi

 

Not according to the onscreen material. That is, we have no idea onscreen about how long Picard might have commanded that ship, or about how many ships Picard might have commanded after the Stargazer - we only know he commanded none before her.

A loser who's stuck commanding an outdated rust bucket for 22 years gets rewarded for his underachievement? I rather think Picard maintained a nice positive gradient to his career, starting out Ensign in "Tapestry" and finishing as Captain in time for "The Battle" but not jumping any ranks in between.

Well, every ship ever flown by heroes other than Kirk has been called that. Which is fine, as all ships strive to be cutting edge, and there are infinitely many ways to achieve that, even when only one can be the fastest (Janeway's never was) or the strongest (Janeway's never was) or the biggest (Janeway's never was) etc.

But Janeway never commanded a starship before NCC-74656, as she herself confirms.

Quite possible, and indeed even plausible. But only implied...

Timo Saloniemi

 

Picard took command of the Stargazer in 2333 it says that on Memory Alpha. He was a Lieutenant Commander, the Captain was killed and he took command. He was the rewarded for this by being made the permanent Captain. Considering how Picard talks about the Stargazer in 'Relics' it sounds like he had the time of his life commanding that ship and saw it as anything but an underachievement.

 

It doesn't say that on Star Trek, though.

Sure, he "took charge of the Stargazer's bridge". But he didn't "make captain", and it would be odd for him to make captain merely because he took charge in a crisis. Many a hero has taken charge in a crisis, without usurping Picard or Kirk or Janeway from his or her place.

No, he wasn't. No rank has ever been associated with the incident where he took command.

And then probably handed it back as soon as the crisis passed. Although perhaps not. After all, we have no idea when this incident took place. Perhaps it was three years before Picard lost the ship to the Ferengi?

Memory Alpha pulls the 2333 date out of a collective ass of sorts, quoting the noncanon writers' bible suggestions on the character, rather than "actual" Trek pseudofacts.

Never stated or otherwise indicated. And it's something of an unlikely reward. Heck, even nuKirk in the 2009 movie doesn't make Captain/captain in quite that fashion, even if he cuts some serious corners. He saves the life of his boss.

When Q quotes the facts of Picard's life in "Tapestry", he first refers to some sort of away team antics, then to the taking-charge-of-bridge incident, and only then, after a pause, brings up the "nobody ever offered your wussier version a command" issue. If anything, it sounds as either the sum total of Picard's previous achievements, or then an issue wholly separate from any of those he listed; associating it with either the Milika III away team or the bridge incident would appear the worst sort of compromise interpretation.

Then he's rather delusional. But apparently this doesn't matter, as he indeed does make it to CO of the Federation Flagship. By whatever means. Perhaps he knows the right people?

But commanding a rust bucket in the frontier would keep him from meeting the right people. So there's probably much more to his career than that.

Timo Saloniemi

 

I figure it mostly had to do with Picard's diplomatic abilities.

 

He might very well if he was authorised to do this by an Admiral or even if Janeway herself asked him for a frank opinion and Tuvok with his Vulcan zeal preceded to do this without airs and graces. Tuvok, on account of his experience and his occupation as a Starfleet instructor, may very well be asked for this kind of feedback, even if formally his rank was a lowly one.

 

Yet the exact wording from "Revulsion" was "he dressed me down". The Admirals delegating this to the Lieutenant would be odd indeed, undermining the chain of command and all.

Perhaps Tuvok gave a frank opinion that Janeway later described in humorous terms in a jolly social occasion, while it was the Admirals who really tore Janeway a new one as the consequence? Or perhaps the Admirals saw little merit in Tuvok's rantings, and Janeway is turning this particular knife in the wound by her choice of words?

Or then Janeway at that point (nine years prior to the ep) indeed was junior to Tuvok and in a position to receive a dressing-down.

Timo Saloniemi