I-VI Movie Poll

[Willsky7]

Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan.

It was a vast improvement from TMP which was something other than Star Trek IMO. The movie had more going for it with Kirk steering the narrative; his midlife crisis, an adversary who won't rest until he gets vengeance, a project which can save lives but in the wrong hands can be used as a weapon of mass destruction. Spock has an eager student who wants to be a great officer, is now under Kirk's wing--she shared his failure, his triumph, and his tragedy in one great space adventure.

What more of an example of a film which represented what TOS was at it's core? Action, some drama, laughter, and suspense. I didn't say II was the best Trek film, that falls under The Voyage Home; but this thread is not posted as a countdown list which some has done. ST II: The Wrath of Khan is my favorite because it's a base where a good writer and producer could go anywhere with it.
There's always possibilities and that didn't mean The Search for Spock and another crap hazard called The Final Frontier, but the possibilities of seeing where those characters engage to boldly go where no man (This also meant women for those who don't know) has gone before.

You said it yourself, TWOK is about kirk's midlife crisis, with the narrative coming from khan's desire for revenge. Genesis is a smaller part of the plot, is is mainly there for kirk's son to argue with him, at the end of the film the genisis subplot isn't really resolved because that's not what the movie is about. I don't see how Kirk finding out he has a son while battling an enemy that he has fought before, is going where no one has gone before.

TOS had its fare share of action stories. But it also had plenty of episodes with a slow moving plot, that had the drama come from the unknown (aliens, or being that the crew couldn't explain that they had to understand in order to overcome).

 

[Willsky7]

Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan.

It was a vast improvement from TMP which was something other than Star Trek IMO. The movie had more going for it with Kirk steering the narrative; his midlife crisis, an adversary who won't rest until he gets vengeance, a project which can save lives but in the wrong hands can be used as a weapon of mass destruction. Spock has an eager student who wants to be a great officer, is now under Kirk's wing--she shared his failure, his triumph, and his tragedy in one great space adventure.

What more of an example of a film which represented what TOS was at it's core? Action, some drama, laughter, and suspense. I didn't say II was the best Trek film, that falls under The Voyage Home; but this thread is not posted as a countdown list which some has done. ST II: The Wrath of Khan is my favorite because it's a base where a good writer and producer could go anywhere with it.
There's always possibilities and that didn't mean The Search for Spock and another crap hazard called The Final Frontier, but the possibilities of seeing where those characters engage to boldly go where no man (This also meant women for those who don't know) has gone before.

You said it yourself, TWOK is about kirk's midlife crisis, with the narrative coming from khan's desire for revenge. Genesis is a smaller part of the plot, is is mainly there for kirk's son to argue with him, at the end of the film the genisis subplot isn't really resolved because that's not what the movie is about. I don't see how Kirk finding out he has a son while battling an enemy that he has fought before, is going where no one has gone before.

TOS had its fare share of action stories. But it also had plenty of episodes with a slow moving plot, that had the drama come from the unknown (aliens, or being that the crew couldn't explain that they had to understand in order to overcome).

 

[STEPhon IT]

Predictable, but voted Khan.

Of the others, I'd say VI has aged the best.

This I disagree. VI is the only film in all of the Trek films which has aged poorly based on how the film was constructed and a very narrow based thinking in the narrative. A mish mash of cheap syndicated TV sets, darker paint, and lots and lots of curtains, including ruining a very beautiful bridge from V. Based on what Nimoy's vision of what this story could have been-- an epic moment where Kirk learns about who the Klingons are, and at their worst crisis in history, he risks everything to save them-- boiled down to a 1 dimensional, uninspiring, very predictable murder mystery.

That's it.

From all we knew about these two superpowers and their historic clashes between them and this muddy movie ends it???

Kirk should've been sentenced the rest of his life on the Klingon planet! There he would learn who Klingons are and their diversities to discover Klingons are not as bad as he thought, but the politics is what differs? It would've been a moment for Kirk to change his views, but instead he's on a ice prison along with other aliens. It's an okay movie but the mystery is too deep within it's own narrow logic where it doesn't show how dire the assassination has effected the galactic community.

The film feels very small for what's it's trying to represent.

 

[Greg Cox]

Ahem, THE TWILIGHT ZONE is hardly "lost to time" or comparable to LOST IN SPACE and such. It's an enduring classic that still holds up after close to sixty years. And it was certainly as thoughtful and sophisticated and allegorical and all that as STAR TREK ever was. And many of the issues the show addressed are as timeless as ever: the dangers of conformity, paranoia, censorship, prejudice, loneliness, nuclear war, etc. There's nothing dated or obsolete about those topics--or about the show's essential humanism..

But getting back OT, THE WRATH OF KHAN is far away my favorite Trek move, with THE VOYAGE HOME running a close second and THE UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY in third place..

TMP is a movie I can respect, but not one that I'm motivated to watch very often. Once every fifteen years or so is fine with me. And I say that with all due respect for Robert Wise, who directed many much better genre movies: THE HAUNTING, THE DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL, THE ANDROMEDA STRAIN, CURSE OF THE CAT PEOPLE, etc.

As for rankings:

1. WOK
2. TVH
3. TUC
4. TSFS
5. TMP
5. TFF

 

[Willsky7]

Ahem, THE TWILIGHT ZONE is hardly "lost to time" or comparable to LOST IN SPACE and such. It's an enduring classic that still holds up after close to sixty years. And it was certainly as thoughtful and sophisticated and allegorical and all that as STAR TREK ever was. Not too surprising, I guess, when you remember that many of the same writers worked on both shows.

But getting back OT, THE WRATH OF KHAN is far away my favorite Trek move, with THE VOYAGE HOME running a close second and THE UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY in third place..

TMP is a movie I can respect, but not one that I'm motivated to watch very often. Once every fifteen years or so is fine with me. And I say that with all due respect for Robert Wise, who directed many much better genre movies: THE HAUNTING, THE DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL, THE ANDROMEDA STRAIN, CURSE OF THE CAT PEOPLE, etc.

As for rankings:

1. WOK
2. TVH
3. TUC
4. TSFS
5. TMP
5. TFF

The twilight zone isn't as obscure as lost in space, but the average person probably isn't familiar with it. The Star ship enterprise, and Kirk and Spock have had a massive effect on pop culture, and are as identifiable as superman and batman or McDonald's. Even though most haven't seen TOS, they can recognize the characters and ship (why do you think Star Trek got such a big budget movie reboot). the twilight zone also got a movie, but that was a long time ago and it didn't make much money, disputed it being more familiar to audiences in the 80's.

And I haven't seen all of the twilight zone, just the first two seasons so far, and I thought I made it clear that not every episode only worked in that time, but what I'm pretty sure is the most famous episode only works in the time (the old man who is always reading, then nuclear war kills everyone else but him, the concern for nuclear war was very much of the time). I also did say that there were episodes of Star Trek that the political element only works for the time (the bad guy in trouble with tribbles is basically a soviet sleeper agent).

 

[Kor]

TUC is an unholy mess, but I find things to enjoy in it nonetheless.

Kor

 

[Greg Cox]

I would argue that "Time Enough at Last" is still as heartbreaking as it ever was. And I wish that nuclear war was no longer a possibility, but have you been watching the headlines lately?

And, honestly, many TZ episodes aren't about "topical" issues at all, just basic humans fears and emotions: regret, loneliness, guilt, suspicion, compassion, sacrifice, what it means to be be human, etc. Those fundamentals never go out of style.

You might as well argue that "Hamlet" is out of date because nobody cares about Danish politics anymore. Or that Star Trek trumps The Iliad or The Odyssey because the Trojan War is old news. It's not always about current events; it's about the human condition.

And I could be wrong, but I'm not sure The Twilight Zone is as obscure as you think it is. As you mentioned, everybody knows the twist with the broken glasses, or remembers the gremlin on the wing of William Shatner's plane, or knows that "To Serve Man" is a cookbook. Heck, the Syfy Channel runs a TZ marathon every New Year's weekend and CBS is developing a rebooted ZONE even as we speak.

 

[Valenti]

The bad guy in TTWT is an enemy imposter. Pure and simple. It doesn't have to be a soviet one. I had to go through Marc Scott Zicree's TZ companion with a huge magic marker to cross out some of his criticisms too so don't worry.

 

[Greg Cox]

The bad guy in TTWT is an enemy imposter. Pure and simple. It doesn't have to be a soviet one. I had to go through Marc Scott Zicree's TZ companion with a huge magic marker to cross out some of his criticisms too so don't worry.

To be fair, the Klingons have long been stand-ins for the Soviets, at least as far as TOS as concerned. It's not a coincidence that TUC features a Gorbachev-like leader (named "Gorkon" no less) attempting a detente with the Federation after a Chernobyl-style disaster at an energy plant.

"In space, all warriors are Cold Warriors."

The conflict between the Federation and the Klingons in TOS was very much a cold war comparable to the one going in the sixties.

 

[Valenti]

I always thought them to be Nazis but that's just me. An enemy imposter is just that to the good guys and the bad. And Trek I was my favorite because it came closest to the essence of Trek than any of the other ones did. It failed but at least it tried. GR wanted to do a version of his idea for 'The Cattlemen' about alien cattle that eat other intelligent creatures but Herb Solow said that would be too boring. Talk about a soviet spy.

 

[Greg Cox]

It failed but at least it tried. .

Good intentions only count for so much. The execution also matters. .

In other words, one can respect the effort, but not feel obliged to enjoy the final product just because the creators meant well.

 

[donners22]

Apparently an unpopular choice, but it's VI for me.

It's a fun adventure romp with great character moments and a bit of a modern parallel - that's classic Trek for me.

It has a few moments which bug me, particularly the dumbing down of secondary characters, but overall it is easily the most enjoyable of the TOS films.

IV is fun too, but pretty lightweight and forgettable. II is okay, but it's hammy without the sense of self-awareness that VI has. III is bland. V is pretty bad, but with nice character moments. TMP is just awful.

 

[Greg Cox]

Apparently an unpopular choice, but it's VI for me.
.

I really like TUC, too. Sometimes I'll fire it up, just to check out one scene, and get sucked into watching the only thing again.

 

[Willsky7]

I would argue that "Time Enough at Last" is still as heartbreaking as it ever was. And I wish that nuclear war was no longer a possibility, but have you been watching the headlines lately?

And, honestly, many TZ episodes aren't about "topical" issues at all, just basic humans fears and emotions: regret, loneliness, guilt, suspicion, compassion, sacrifice, what it means to be be human, etc. Those fundamentals never go out of style.

You might as well argue that "Hamlet" is out of date because nobody cares about Danish politics anymore. Or that Star Trek trumps The Iliad or The Odyssey because the Trojan War is old news. It's not always about current events; it's about the human condition.

And I could be wrong, but I'm not sure The Twilight Zone is as obscure as you think it is. As you mentioned, everybody knows the twist with the broken glasses, or remembers the gremlin on the wing of William Shatner's plane, or knows that "To Serve Man" is a cookbook. Heck, the Syfy Channel runs a TZ marathon every New Year's weekend and CBS is developing a rebooted ZONE even as we speak.

That's a good point. I also realize that nuclear war is still very much a possibility today, however The average tv viewer is more concerned with terrorism and mass shooting, nuclear war isn't on the for front of people's minds. I was also unaware that a reboot for TZ was in the works, but I would maintain that Star Trek is far more recognizable.

 

[Greg Cox]

But there's more to TV shows than just their relevance to current events. Sure, STAR TREK sometimes did thinly-disguised, occasionally heavy-handed episodes about Viet Nam or race relations or overpopulation or whatever, but that wasn't' all STAR TREK was about, and, honestly, most of the best episodes were not torn from the headlines: "City on the Edge of Forever," "The Devil in the Dark," "Amok Time," The Trouble with Tribbles," etc.

None of those episodes were about current events and they've arguably aged better than most of the more topical eps. Are we really going to argue that, say, "A Private Little War" or "Mark of Gideon" are actually better than "Balance of Terror" or "The Doomsday Machine"?

 

[STEPhon IT]

Apparently an unpopular choice, but it's VI for me.

In comparison to Star Trek II and IV.

I would watch VI any day then bare looking at any of those TNG films. Because some has expressed the film's flaws doesn't mean it's unpopular.

 

[Willsky7]

But there's more to TV shows than just their relevance to current events. Sure, STAR TREK sometimes did thinly-disguised, occasionally heavy-handed episodes about Viet Nam or race relations or overpopulation or whatever, but that wasn't' all STAR TREK was about, and, honestly, most of the best episodes were not torn from the headlines: "City on the Edge of Forever," "The Devil in the Dark," "Amok Time," The Trouble with Tribbles," etc.

None of those episodes were about current events and they've arguably aged better than most of the more topical eps. Are we really going to argue that, say, "A Private Little War" or "Mark of Gideon" are actually better than "Balance of Terror" or "The Doomsday Machine"?

I know I am in the minority here, but my favorite TOS episode is "a private little war" and "Arena". This is a personal preference but I find both "balance of terror" and "doomsday machine" forgettable, I also think that "trouble with tribbles" is overrated. But like I said I am clearly in the minority when it comes to this. Of course I do like "city on the edge of forever" (it is an interesting ethical question the heroes are presented with) and "amok time" (I like the look at Vulcan culture, but outside that there isn't a lot going on for me).

 

[Greg Cox]

I know I am in the minority here, but my favorite TOS episode is "a private little war" and "Arena". This is a personal preference but I find both "balance of terror" and "doomsday machine" forgettable, I also think that "trouble with tribbles" is overrated. But like I said I am clearly in the minority when it comes to this. Of course I do like "city on the edge of forever" (it is an interesting ethical question the heroes are presented with) and "amok time" (I like the look at Vulcan culture, but outside that there isn't a lot going on for me).

I'm with you on "Arena." Great episode.

 

[Willsky7]

But there's more to TV shows than just their relevance to current events. Sure, STAR TREK sometimes did thinly-disguised, occasionally heavy-handed episodes about Viet Nam or race relations or overpopulation or whatever, but that wasn't' all STAR TREK was about, and, honestly, most of the best episodes were not torn from the headlines: "City on the Edge of Forever," "The Devil in the Dark," "Amok Time," The Trouble with Tribbles," etc.

None of those episodes were about current events and they've arguably aged better than most of the more topical eps. Are we really going to argue that, say, "A Private Little War" or "Mark of Gideon" are actually better than "Balance of Terror" or "The Doomsday Machine"?

Also I don't think that cultural relevance is the most important thing in a tv show, I prefer the kind of episodes where the characters are presented with ethical challenges, but I also appreciate a show tackling current political topics. I think one of the better episodes is "let that be your last battlefield", although I know many other fans disagree.

 

[Willsky7]

I'm with you on "Arena." Great episode.

"Arena" is a very interesting story. It's very rare for the good guys to realize they are really the ones in the wrong and change as a result.