That was the end of the first trailer. Hook, line and sinker!
Spoilers Was Luke...
- Thread starter YellowSubmarine
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That was the end of the first trailer. Hook, line and sinker!
The Emperor works because he is the opposing force in Luke's efforts to bring Vader back from the dark side. He represents evil and corruption and he wants to bring Vader and Luke down to his level. He isn't complicated, and he doesn't have a detailed backstory, but he works on archetypical and mythological levels and he was also built up with restraint through the trilogy. Snoke on the other hand is pretty much just Emperor 2.0 but without the battle for Vader's soul to define him or even the vague hints of backstory. (Based on the films) We don't even know if Snoke formed the First Order or just took it over later. We don't know his end goal, we don't know what motivates him. The Emperor may have been simplistic, but he was well defined.
Oh I don’t for one minute think Luke Skywalker is evil, that’s the reason I cannot comprehend what TLJ showed us, whether he went into his room with it already drawn or he drew it after sensing Ben’s thoughts, that is something Luke would never do. Not to a family member anyway.
It was Darth Vader who threatened Luke with turning his sister to the dark side that made him ‘fight’ him in the first place. Luke continued to say ‘I will not fight you’ up until this point. Luke is very much a ‘put family and friends first’ type. He went against Yoda wishes to go try n save them in Empire.
The explanation of ‘people change in 30 years’ doesnt wash with me, his life choices, attitude and style maybe but not how he views friends and family.
You've just undercut your own argument. Luke's instinct in RotJ was to furiously attack Vader at that moment to protect what he loved, not stopping until he had cut off Vader's hand. It was dumb luck that he didn't hit Vader with a killing stroke, only maiming him. Then Luke cooled down and refused to kill Vader. His instinct in TLJ upon sensing those evil thoughts was to attack Ben at that moment to protect everything he loved, including family and friends. Then the moment passed and he decided not to kill Ben, but it was too late.
Tell me the difference again.
The fact he barely knew his father, yet still managed to restrain himself from dealing a killer blow, the fact he knew Ben from a child and had a major impact on his upbringing. Completely different scenarios.
Luke didn’t go to Ben’s room in the middle of the night whilst he was asleep to wake him up and have a heart to heart, it was pre planned in his mind he plucked up the courage to go there with the full intention of killing him, after comtemplating it some more whilst he stood over him, then decided to egnite his saber, it was only when Ben woke up did it set it what he was about to do, but he may not have woken up thus Luke would’ve killed him in his sleep. It was only Ben force pushing him away that stopped it from happening.
I just don’t buy the idea that those thoughts would run through Luke’s mind in the first place. He’d try everything he could to turn him back just like he did with his father, who again, he barely knew.
Wow. You're off the deep end. I'm through with this. There's no reasoning with you.
I don’t need reasoning with, it’s my opinion based on what I saw. We’re on a discussion board, so I discuss. I like to hear other people’s opinions, doesn’t mean I have to agree with them.
Would it have helped you if there'd been a little montage or something showing what exactly Luke saw that terrified him so? If during the final flashback, we saw Luke enter Ben's hut, approach him, and then
FLASH
The Jedi Academy in flames, surrounded by the broken bodies of students...
FLASH
Lor San Tekka being gutted like a fish...
FLASH
Cowering families and children being incinerated on Hosnian Prime...
FLASH
Han's loving expression turning to shock and agony as the lightsaber pierces his heart, and he falls a long, long way...
FLASH
The bridge of the Raddus exploding and Leia being blown into icy space...
And Luke reels back, his Lightsaber in his hand and ignited almost too fast for us to see, drawing back... and then relaxing as he catches his breath, realizes what he's doing, but it's too late, Ben has rolled over...
Because that's how I interpret what we were told, even if we weren't shown it. Seven movies of Jedi visions, both seen and heard second-hand, have given pretty high marks for their reliability, even if they're not always interpreted properly by those who see them, so it doesn't seem like a leap to assume Luke's vision of terrifying evil is exactly what we've seen happen and not some other, less personally affecting version of Kylo Ren's bottomless depths of evil.
That's what makes this argument seem weird. You say, "Luke was always forgiving of his evil family, except when he tried to kill Vader in the heat of the moment when he was threatening loved ones like Han and Leia, so why would Luke (nearly) attack Ben, in the heat of a moment when he'd just seen Ben was going to kill Han and, probably, Leia?"
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It probably does have a lot to do with the way it was portrayed, we literally know nothing of the events that led up to that night, which is probably why I and a lot of other people have a hard time accepting it.
I still find it impossible that Luke, having witnessed first hand this child grow from a baby into a young adult, would be capable of doing what we saw. It’s like a lot of parents ( rightly or wrongly) see their children as golden, no matter what crimes they’ve committed. I know Ben isn’t Luke’s child but hes the closest thing he had to his own.
You're reminding me of that fan comic showing what went through Chewie's head when Han was stabbed. Notably, Chewie actually did shoot Ben in the end, and didn't just think about it for a second.
That's not at all what the movie said.
Exactly. In the end, Anakin couldn't just stand there and watch his son be murdered. And his last thoughts were of his daughter. Now we have a Luke Skywalker that would actually consider striking down his own nephew; His sisters son. Fuck that.
If it's true that you write about what you know, I may have to lose my invitation to the Johnson family reunion.
Yes, a hero can't have a moment of weakness that the hero admits to!?
Jeez dude. I'm no hero, but when I have a moment of weakness I'll eat an entire Ben and Jerry's or something.
What I wont do is try to kill my buddy's kids.
And? Should I equate your personal experience to Luke's?
It may be outside your experience. It may be outside my experience, but it is very much within human beings, in even a brief moment of fear or PSTD, to react rather than think.
I'm glad that we modern humans can be all rational and stuff, but we are not far removed from the darkness within each of us.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Vader try several times to kill Luke, or was all that lightsaber waving in ESB just for show? Didn't Vader actually cut Luke's hand off? Aren't fathers a little more connected to their own progeny than uncles are to nephews? Didn't Luke actually decide against killing Ben and "in the end" didn't so much as scratch Ren until his own death?
That you continually stoop to obscenities in your posts does your credibility no favors at all.
Kirk the Jerk seems to live in his own reality, seeing what he wants to see rather than what's on the screen.
Wasted keystrokes, my friend, I'm sorry to say
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