Spoilers Was Luke...

Discussion in 'Star Wars' started by YellowSubmarine, Dec 31, 2017.

?

Was Luke on the island?

  1. Luke was there, you literalist dolt

    37 vote(s)
    63.8%
  2. Luke was not there

    3 vote(s)
    5.2%
  3. Mixed about it - whatever happened to him at the end had already started

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Quite the opposite - Luke closed himself off from the force to delay his departure

    1 vote(s)
    1.7%
  5. It's a false distinction

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. I like Porgs

    17 vote(s)
    29.3%
  1. YellowSubmarine

    YellowSubmarine Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ...ever really there? On the island, was he physically there?

    MAJOR SPOILERS

    Now, Luke obviously pulled the most powerful Force stunt of all – he wasn't really on not-Hoth, when everyone else thought he was. Hilarious, as his corporeality was then made essential to plot and the group's escape from their trap. :lol:

    But... During Rey's first lesson, she said she didn't see Luke there. Now, the literal fool that I am, I immediately thought ‘Oh, wow, he's not physically there! Such a spectacular twist! That's so cool! Wow!’. Then she's like ‘You've closed yourself off from the force...’, and I'm like... Meh. OK. Not so spectacular, but I'll take it.

    Then... At the end, he's actually not there, which is so much better. And I didn't see that coming, at all, despite noticing the obvious foreshadowing of the fact. :lol: I kept wondering how is he not dead? Then bam, he's really not there this time. Wow.

    But now I wonder, was he there for any of it? May be he passed away a year earlier.
    - Rey said he wasn't
    - His body completely vanished, as if it wasn't there to begin with. As if the mental exercise to appear at the rebel base made him unable to keep his faux-corporeal presence on the island any more.
    - His presence at the rebel base felt as physical until someone tried to kill him.
    - He was hanging out with Yoda.
    - He said ‘powerful light, powerful dark’. Was the powerful light the tree and the books, (which he burned, or him? If it was him, how could he be absent from the force?

    Counter-arguments:
    - Rey was specific she referred an absence in the Force (but she didn't understand the force, so we can't take her word for it)
    - He was shown present at both locations, which doesn't make sense if he wasn't at either (but the Jedi temple may be special in some way).
    - His clothes were real.
    - I suspect I may be high on medication.
     
  2. Captain of the USS Averof

    Captain of the USS Averof Commodore Commodore

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    That wasn’t Luke in TLJ, period.
     
  3. Campe98

    Campe98 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Nope. But thank you for playing.

    And yes, he was on the island.
     
  4. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    His clothes (and I assume his hand?) fell when he disappeared, just like with Obi-Wan, so yes he was there...until he wasn't...or rather until he was everywhere and every-when.

    Side note: I assume the reason Yoda's robes disappeared with him was because they couldn't figure out a practical way to do that and have the two shots match convincingly for the fade-out. As it stands I gather it was difficult enough just getting the blanket to work with stop-motion. Doing his full wardrobe too would have been a nightmare. In theory, I think we're supposed to mentally fudge that and pretend they stayed behind.

    They struggled with Obi-Wan's robes too, which IIRC is why what we got was just a few frames of what they actually shot, cranked way down. There was actually a pyro effect so it was clear that his body was literally cut in half before he disappeared. As it stands it look like he willed himself to become one with the force a split second before Vader's swing made contact.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2017
  5. Kirk the Jerk

    Kirk the Jerk Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Agreed!
     
  6. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Luke's dead. If by some contrivance they bring him back, I'll get over it. Otherwise, it's not worth wringing my hands over.
     
  7. Hugo Rune

    Hugo Rune Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Did you not see ESB or RoTJ?

    This universe is founded on plot contrivances.

    Luke existed. He was a real boy, who grew up to be a damaged old man, who spent a while on an island pissing off wildlife by milking them, hunting them, and getting underfoot during Temple chores.

    He was there when Rey visited and he found balance with the island, the Force and himself when she left.

    Hugo - expects to see him in IX as long as the paycheck is high enough
     
  8. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Like I said, if there is one, I'll get over it.
     
  9. EnsignRicky

    EnsignRicky Commodore Commodore

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    Luke wasn't in this movie. That was Jake Skywalker.
     
  10. bigglesworth

    bigglesworth Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    That would have been a very interesting twist and may have cast Luke in a different light. I believe the greatest issue people have with this movie is the handling of Luke (mainly his attempt to murder Ben and his act of hiding). If Luke had died on Achtoo (Auch-to??? Actoo???... however it's spelled) prior to Rey discovering him, that would mean that Luke hadn't been in hiding while the galaxy was burning around him and his appearance to everyone on Krait, not just those who were force sensitive, would solidify him being one of the most powerful Jedi in history.

    The final scene could have played out where Luke is sitting on the stone after his appearance on Krait and he vanishes, cloak and all. The camera could pan down into the cave that Luke warned Rey about and there we'd see in some area of it, human remains with the hilt of Luke's green lightsaber.

    That being said, I voted that you're a "literalist dolt"... no offense :)
     
  11. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    If Luke wasn't actually on the island but rather was "projecting himself" there, then surely for the first half of the movie when he was trying to avoid Rey he could have stopped projecting rather than run around the island and try to hide?
     
  12. mos6507

    mos6507 Commodore Commodore

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    He was there. I also think he was kinda there as a force projection in the sense that there was some limited physicality with the kiss and the dice and what not. Similar to a holodeck simulation.
     
  13. Jax

    Jax Admiral Admiral

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    Aye it was Mr. Skywalker
     
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  14. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I strongly disagree. That sea-cow seemed chill as fuck. ;)
     
  15. YellowSubmarine

    YellowSubmarine Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It seems that Yoda will make Force ghost appearances in Star Wars films for perpetuity and will remain immortal in the franchise, along with C-3PO and R2-D2 (and perhaps BB-8). The only reason Luke and Obi Wan wouldn't do the same is because human actors are, sadly, not immortal to play them. And I'd have enormously mixed feelings if they give them the Tarkin treatment from R1 anywhere in the future.

    I fear it's a question of when, not if, but I doubt Episode IX would do that. And I hope neither would the next trilogy.

    (And, obviously, nobody want Hayden Christensen to re-appear as a Force ghost anywhere!)

    He didn't attempt anything. He was tempted for a moment.
     
  16. Kirk the Jerk

    Kirk the Jerk Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Oh he certainly went there to kill him, you don’t go into someone’s room in the middle of the night whilst they’re sleeping with your weapon drawn on a temptation. Again, he attempted to kill his Nephew, which, is something Luke would never do.
     
  17. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Force Ghost, time travel, Genesis effect ... we aren't innocent of bringing character back from the dead or transporting them to times when they would not normally be alive. And I must admit that these literary resurrections are abused more in Star Trek than in Star Wars, although the amount of filmed content in the former spreads out the instances in which it happens.

    My first hope is that they have the courage of their convictions to keep Luke dead. TFA didn't do as much as it should have to establish its own identity, and it would be hokey if every movie dedicated itself to showing us the fate of every character. I may not agree with every aspect of Luke's presentation (although I mostly like it), Mark Hammill gave a strong, complex performance, one worthy of the character's end.

    My second thought is that should they bring him back in some form, how they do it will matter more than that they did it. I like Search for Spock, and I'm glad that Nimoy appeared in the subsequent movies. OTOH, it could have been truly corny. I don't think the revivals of every character were equally successful. Trials and Tribble-ations would have been terrible if it had struck anything other than a comedic and nostalgic tone. Flashback had its moments but was ultimately hamstrung by its artifice. And the less said about These are the Voyages, the better. Getting back to Star Wars, not all instances of the Force Ghost we equally successful. They worked best in ESB because they were used sparingly. Kenobi's second ghost appearance in ROTJ was less successful, notable for the especially corny "from a certain point of view" line. With that level of interaction, death becomes largely unthreatening ... from the dramatic point of view. And then in the end, there's the force ghost appearances in the final scenes, which are hokey, fine for wrapping up the story, until Hadyn Christianisan's visage is edited in.

    So when I say I'll get over it, I probably will. Doing so in a way that pleases the few disgruntled fans, though, would drag down the next movie. The better choice ... the courageous choice ... is to leave Luke dead.
     
  18. Mage

    Mage Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Sure it was. Just a different person after 30 years. As in, every individual changes over time. Some a lot more than others, but hey, that's life.
     
  19. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    Both Leia and Rey felt him pass after he disappeared. That one scene seemed to be explicitly included in the film to indicate that he was there and then passed on to the force in the same way that all the other masters did after expending an immense amount of force energy - a fatal amount, in fact. Cool scene at the end where he was clearly remembering Tatooine with the twin suns before he went.

    I knew there was something off during the whole projection scene. Luke was wielding his first (Anakin's) blue lightsaber, the one that had been torn in half by Rey and Kylo in the previous scene. He should have been using the green one he created in RotJ. At first I thought it was a horribly blatant continuity error. Once the projection bit became evident, it all made sense.
     
  20. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    No, he didn't.
     
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