Spoilers Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Grading & Discussion

[bigglesworth]

No, I thought GEN Kirk was treated way to much as a superhero.

Can I ask how losing your family member to the Dark Side of the Force, after fighting against it for years, would affect someone?

I honestly can't answer your question. I'd like to believe I'd choose the honorable and dutiful path but I've never been faced with that dilemma.

I can point to a historical figure, Bass Reeves who many believe was the historic template for the Lone Ranger. Reeves, a US Marshall who pursued thousands of criminals throughout his career, was forced to arrest his own son for murder. His honor and commitment never faltered, even when it came to his own family.

 

[fireproof78]

I honestly can't answer your question. I'd like to believe I'd choose the honorable and dutiful path but I've never been faced with that dilemma.

I can point to a historical figure, Bass Reeves who many believe was the historic template for the Lone Ranger. Reeves, a US Marshall who pursued thousands of criminals throughout his career, was forced to arrest his own son for murder. His honor and commitment never faltered, even when it came to his own family.

I would love to say the same thing, but the fact that it is rare means it isn't very human.

 

[Campe]

Luke did try, and failed, and that failure scarred him. Maybe I'm too generous, but I find that more engaging than a Luke who tried, failed, and was fine off screen.

It’s a far more interesting journey that he underwent than what a lot of fans wanted. We could have just had Super Luke but for me? I think I would have been unfulfilled. I get that others are and I’m sorry for that. But from a story perspective, with where JJ left things, Rian made the right call.

 

[JD]

Good question. You can respond in different ways. But we have some precedent where Luke is concerned that he decided to dig in his heels and bring Vader back to the light side be damned, and he didn’t know Vader. And basically just about everything likely told to him about his father by Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru was a lie or heavily edited truth. Yet, (I’m assuming) he knows Ben. He likely has been part of his life since Ben’s birth. Was Ben’s mind really so dark that Luke felt no other option than to kill him, even if it was a short feeling? It was long enough for him to draw and light his lightsaber. In ROTJ, Luke threw away his lightsaber to resist his own dark impulses or the Emperor’s seduction. One would think that an older and wiser Luke than the one in ROTJ would’ve developed different ways to cope with dark side temptation than drawing his lightsaber.

I can see where being determined to save someone who has fallen, could also lead to being willing to do whatever it takes to prevent another loved one from falling, even killing them.

 

[bigglesworth]

I would love to say the same thing, but the fact that it is rare means it isn't very human.

Very true, however even in the SW universe, Luke isn't ordinary.

 

[fireproof78]

Very true, however even in the SW universe, Luke isn't ordinary.

Then scenes like that one made him even more relatable to me than before.

 

[bigglesworth]

Then scenes like that one made him even more relatable to me than before.

That's completely fair. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[EnsignRicky]

Good for Mark. Doesn't mean I or every other fan needs to agree with it.

Yeah I don't know what Mark Hamill is complaining about, he had the easiest job in the world.

So what if he had to play a miserable, bitter, contemptuous, disillusioned, broken man with dashed hopes, unfulfilled promises, no future and only the cold embrace of a lonely unceremonious and rather anti-climactic death to end his suffering.

It's not every actor who enjoys the time saving luxury of being able to learn their lines and get into character at the same time. All he had to do was read the script.

 

[mos6507]

...from a story perspective, with where JJ left things, Rian made the right call.

I think JJ sort of set Rian up for this. Force Awakens was meant to be an upbeat movie but the only way it could hold onto that tone was by downplaying Luke's storyline to the point of rendering him a MacGuffin. You're not really given time to think through why Luke failed as a teacher and whether there was any culpability there, but it was going to have to be tackled in this film one way or another. Luke was going to be nursing a guilt-trip no matter what even if he hadn't contemplated killing Ben.

In Force Awakens, Leia is more of a cameo sized role ala Mon Mothma or Ackbar, but it leaned on Han's iconic status to carry the film, only to jettison him in a Kirk-Generations sort of a way, just for the sake of getting rid of him. Everyone should remember that. I don't know the right way to end Han's story but it was seriously anti-climactic. It's just that up UNTIL that point, Ford is playing the character exactly the way he did, as if he never really changed. And that's why I think the film has a higher rating. Han was kept static, allowed to repeat his old schtick as fan-service, and then disposed of. Luke was shown radically altered.

I know I'm rambling but I just think the beating that Rian is getting is missing the flaws in Force Awakens and how some of these story problems were inevitable.

 

[fireproof78]

Yeah I don't know what Mark Hamill is complaining about, he had the easiest job in the world.

So what if he had to play a miserable, bitter, contemptuous, disillusioned, broken man with dashed hopes, unfulfilled promises, no future and only the cold embrace of a lonely unceremonious and rather anti-climactic death to end his suffering.

It's not every actor who enjoys the time saving luxury of being able to learn their lines and get into character at the same time. All he had to do was read the script.

Yeah, no.

I know I'm rambling but I just think the beating that Rian is getting is missing the flaws in Force Awakens and how some of these story problems were inevitable.

Perhaps.

 

[Refuge]

I wasn't going to comment on this. ONE thing. I'm glad for Mark Hamill as an actor. For Luke Skywalker? I weep, (well not real tears). Demeaned in every way.

 

[EnsignRicky]

Yeah, no.

Oh, so you were the one chosen to pass personal judgement and offer half formed remarks on every poster's comments.

 

[EnsignRicky]

Perhaps.

But hey what do I know.

 

[fireproof78]

Oh, so you were the one chosen to pass personal judgement and offer half formed remarks on every poster's comments.

Because it makes no sense. If a person is angry at a film, that's fine. But acting like it dragged a beloved franchise in to the street and shot it in the head? No.

It is a wrong assertion that all Hamil had to do was "read his lines." That's bogus, pure and simple. His death was hardly "anti-climatic" and was highly sacrificial, doing the heroic thing. So, again, bogus.

He found his hope again, and learned from his failures. He was actually a dynamic character with growth.

If this hyperbolic ranting against a director is going to be posted to a public forum, then expect refutation.

 

[Trekkin]

Oh, so you were the one chosen to pass personal judgement and offer half formed remarks on every poster's comments.

Five minutes later...

Perhaps.

But hey what do I know.

He found his hope again, and learned from his failures. He was actually a dynamic character with growth.

Old people don’t grow and learn shit, man. Everyone knows your emotional well-being stays perfectly static once you pass 30.

After that, all you’ll ever do is exposit in a wise-sounding way, and die.

 

[KlingonCereal]

So honestly the more I discuss this film the more I dislike it. When I first watched it I thought it was a fun little mindless film. Some phenomenal visuals, good music, etc. But then I talked about the film more and more.

Leia flying through space? Pointless casino scenes? Yoda striking lightning from the dead? Snoke getting killed off within a second? Pointless betrayals? I could go on. If I could summarize how I felt about the film in one quick blip: A two and a half hour prologue to a new Star Wars trilogy.

The film wastes time on pointless sideplots instead of developing characters or building the main plot. Then they kill off Snoke! We know absolutely nothing about the guy but eh who cares? Hes dead.

What do the first order represent? Where did they come from? Who cares. They are bad guy because we say so. Why are the resisitance where they are at this point in time? Who cares. They have Leia, they are good guys.

Again - I could go on and on about the many problems with this film. Overall I think, once the hype dies down, this film will be remembered alongside the prequels and laughed at similarly. Though if I had to find the closest comparison of quality I'd place it alongside Episode 3.

 

[Trekkin]

What do the first order represent?

...Really?

I never want to hear about how these movies are too ‘obviously political’ again.

 

[KlingonCereal]

...Really?

I never want to hear about how these movies are too ‘obviously political’ again.

I've never been that person who hated the prequels because of their political "focus". But there is a fine line between avoiding a bunch of political scenes and flat out failing to develop aspects of your story.

 

[Trekkin]

Dude, it is explained. Blindingly clearly.

The Empire were the Space Nazis.

The FO are Space neo-Nazi’s.

Besides all the, err...’subtle’ hints in everything they do, say, and wear, their place in the universe is literally spelled out in the opening crawl of TFA.



And as TLJ ended with the incompetent, whiny, entitled, gropey overly-privileged man-children running the asylum, theyre probably going to ‘evolve’ to the next logical step: People Concerned About Ethics In Video Game Journalis- *gets pulled offstage by shepherds crook*

 

[EnsignRicky]

it dragged a beloved franchise in to the street and shot it in the head

I know I've torn it away from it's context and put a little French twist on it but screw it:

Quoted For God Damned Truth!!