Spoilers Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Grading & Discussion
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The impression I got from the movie, after I like it and glad they found a different tone to take with the franchise, was that it was weak on editing, either at the writing stage or in post production. I think it would have made more sense if the film started with Finn and Rose going to the casino planet in search of arms and ships, then the Resistance has to evacuate. It might have avoided that slow motion chase.
I'm probably never going to understand how so many people missed the narrative and thematic point of the Canto Bight and Resistance since it's so blatant, but thats' neither here nor there at this point.
My grade was C-. I didn't hate it, as much of the Internet seems to, but was bitterly disappointed. It had so many glaring flaws and a flat story that should have been scrapped, or at the very least saved for a standalone adventure. I won't go into all of the major nitpicks, as I'm sure everybody knows about them and is sick of reading them by now (at least I am). Many of the things others take issue with, such as the bombers in space, the wonky physics, or weaponized hyperspace really didn't bother me.
What did is the main characters being flat and boring. I felt like the Finn/Rose romance came straight out of nowhere, and the side-adventure they went on was ultimately pointless, and shows a kindergarten level of understanding of complex societal issues and completely ignored the probable consequences of the character's actions. For example, the animals they freed would most likely be recaptured, or killed, and the casino they trashed would be rebuilt using by the slaves they failed to free. A much better way to go about this would have been Rose and Finn planting the seeds of a rebellion among the slaves, or making one of the oligarchs realize the error of their ways, possibly by saving his/her life. Instead the situation is handled in an extremely cartoonish way, except that most animated films these days make much more sense.
Rose's final act of "saving" Finn by trying to kill him, and almost ensuring the death of everybody in the rebellion was mind-bogglingly stupid. Especially considering Rose is supposed to be a member of a military organization in war where people did and will die. It would have been much better if she had a better way to destroy the giant laser without loss of life, and knocked Finn out of the way to do so, or knocked him out of the way to sacrifice herself.
Not to make this all about Rose, but these are just a few examples of some of the many bizarre decisions made by characters in this film that ruined my enjoyment of the movie. Ultimately it felt like Disney wants to jettison the current SW fanbase and go after the YA crowd by introducing characters that are special for no particular reason and simplified plot elements that can be understood by the audiences they are underestimating the intelligence of. I don't necessarily blame them. The Hunger Games was a worldwide phenomenon, even if the films didn't have the best writing. However, every series that tried to replicate the success of The Hunger Games has failed. Thus I see this direction Disney is taking Star Wars failing miserably.
What did is the main characters being flat and boring. I felt like the Finn/Rose romance came straight out of nowhere, and the side-adventure they went on was ultimately pointless, and shows a kindergarten level of understanding of complex societal issues and completely ignored the probable consequences of the character's actions. For example, the animals they freed would most likely be recaptured, or killed, and the casino they trashed would be rebuilt using by the slaves they failed to free. A much better way to go about this would have been Rose and Finn planting the seeds of a rebellion among the slaves, or making one of the oligarchs realize the error of their ways, possibly by saving his/her life. Instead the situation is handled in an extremely cartoonish way, except that most animated films these days make much more sense.
Rose's final act of "saving" Finn by trying to kill him, and almost ensuring the death of everybody in the rebellion was mind-bogglingly stupid. Especially considering Rose is supposed to be a member of a military organization in war where people did and will die. It would have been much better if she had a better way to destroy the giant laser without loss of life, and knocked Finn out of the way to do so, or knocked him out of the way to sacrifice herself.
Not to make this all about Rose, but these are just a few examples of some of the many bizarre decisions made by characters in this film that ruined my enjoyment of the movie. Ultimately it felt like Disney wants to jettison the current SW fanbase and go after the YA crowd by introducing characters that are special for no particular reason and simplified plot elements that can be understood by the audiences they are underestimating the intelligence of. I don't necessarily blame them. The Hunger Games was a worldwide phenomenon, even if the films didn't have the best writing. However, every series that tried to replicate the success of The Hunger Games has failed. Thus I see this direction Disney is taking Star Wars failing miserably.
Great films from those who understand screenwriting have their characters serve a purpose--a reason to be. For example, in ANH, Tarkin and his staff all served a distinct purpose: to illustrate the threat of not only the Death Star, but the Empire, while showing divisions in its hierarchy. That provided life to the villains and as mentioned, illustrated just what kind of threat they were (long before destroying Alderaan). In TLJ, it was nonsensical to have a character (Rose) occupy so much screen time, and take the attention away from one of the alleged trinity of new "heroes" (Finn) without serving a genuine purpose for being there, occupying said screen time. Finn could have been written not as a clown, but as a man who (using Rey's safety as his motivator) taken it on himself to seek the codebreaker, which would have added maturity to him--part of (what should have been) the natural maturation of a character who had experienced so much in TFA.
Instead, all of the focus is on Rose, spouting a paper-thin PSA script all throughout the casino sequence, and at the end--out of nowhere--some declaration of a love that was not hinted at to any degree in all of their scenes together. While its also clear she was there just to serve as a permanent reason Finn will never be linked romantically with Rey (the one sequel series relationship that--at one time--moved in that direction), such an empty character shoehorned in the plot sidelined Finn, who should have taken the next step of development like every main character from the OT or PT.
Yes. The world of TFA should have been far better explained. They didn't have to go into rich detail or anything - just a few lines about Snoke rising to take over the Empire immediately after RoTJ would have sufficed.
True. However, I don't forgive the flaws of a modern blockbuster just because they were made by a 40 year-old film with no previous films to live up to. Still, if the Emporer were set up as a mysterious and strong figure in ANH only to be easily killed off in Empire, even in 1980 it would have confused people.
The prequels didn't really go into the Jedi philosophy so much as show them being aloof elitists who didn't do much of anything to ensure peace. Having love be forbidden was a ham-fisted way to create conflict on AoTC that didn't make a whole lot of sense considering we know Anakin had two children with someone!I thought the prequels made it obvious that the Jedi philosophy is a bunch of bullshit and Yoda seems to finally have realized it as well. The whole "love and emotions are bad!"-angle that was added as a plot device to keep Anakin from Padme was just so incredibly dumb that I can't respect the Jedi philosophy at all.
That's what Luke finally learned as well.
The humor in Marvel films was handled much better and kept in character. Most of the humor is situational, i.e., characters making comments about what is going on or being out of place in their current situation. In this film, much of the humor was added just to have a character be "jokey", and so didn't appeal to much of anybody. There were hardly no laughs when I saw the film in the theater. In fact, it was the only time I can recall people leaving halfway through a film! Even Battlefield Earth!
I agree. It felt to me that Rose's character started with a need to place an Asian female in a lead role, which is fine, but they really didn't know what to do with her. Using my idea of Finn and Rose planting the seeds of rebellion, she could have been a much more effective, determined character assisting Finn in a situation who, as a former stormtrooper, he probably isn't cut out for. It would have given them a chance to grow and bond as characters, instead of riding giant chihuahuas in a comically over the top chase scene.
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There's a lot of misconception out there regarding timelines, which is why people should really bother to do some basic research of the non-filmic Canon.
Between the Battle of Jakku (5 ABY) and 28 ABY, there was nothing of note happening in the galaxy. The remnants of the Empire were isolated in the Unknown Regions and the New Republic, despite some tension amongst Senators, was maintaining a stable peace.
It wasn't until the galaxy at large learned that Luke and Leia's father was Darth Vader in 28 ABY that things started falling apart in earnest, so there really is not all that much that needs to be explained.
Between the Battle of Jakku (5 ABY) and 28 ABY, there was nothing of note happening in the galaxy. The remnants of the Empire were isolated in the Unknown Regions and the New Republic, despite some tension amongst Senators, was maintaining a stable peace.
It wasn't until the galaxy at large learned that Luke and Leia's father was Darth Vader in 28 ABY that things started falling apart in earnest, so there really is not all that much that needs to be explained.
My ranking:
1. ESB
2. SW (screw the retconned title)
3. TLJ
4. R1
5. ROTJ
6. TFA
7. TPM
8. ROTS
9. AOTC
1. ESB
2. SW (screw the retconned title)
3. TLJ
4. R1
5. ROTJ
6. TFA
7. TPM
8. ROTS
9. AOTC
1. That’s not narrative. That’s setting.
2. No it doesn’t. They exist to establish Vader’s Force choke, and as a prop for Tarkin’s exposition. The ‘divisions’ aren’t presented as a threat to anything, and ends before the scene itself concludes. We certainly don’t get any reveals into the Empire’s hierarchy from that scene. It remains a nice broad Emperor->Tarkin->Everyone else.
In ANH and the trilogy as a whole, the scene and it’s characters could be completely removed with no effect on the plot whatsoever.
3. What’s Chewie’s grand narrative purpose? I know what his purpose is (adds flavour to the setting, give Han someone to exposit to when he’s story-obliged to ‘let’s split up gang’, and as comic relief), but I’m curious how you explain why he has to be there.
Hell, why did we need Threepio?
4. If we’re counting ‘exposits about the bad guys weapons and simply sets up the political situation’ as ‘narratively important’, then Rose more than justifies her existence.
You just don’t appear to like that, unlike Tarkin the genocidal fascist from ANH, Rose does so in the context of complaining that power was removed from legitimate governing bodies and given to a bunch of murdering arseholes motivated by the selfish advocation of their personal status above all else.
She’s also thematically important, but who cares about that.
5. You’re treating Rose like a supporting character. Like her actions must buffer whatever some main character has going on. For eg. The dude who tells Tarkin to evacuate, prompts the reveal of Tarkin’s hubris.
Rose isn’t support. She’s a protagonist. She doesn’t ‘serve the plot’, the plot stems from her.
(You can get completely passive protagonists, but even they ‘make’ things happen in the sense that their presence makes a narrative.)
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Maz was talking about Finn coming back. He'd just run off, and then the "came back" phrasing is echoed at Starkiller when Rey meets them during her escape and Chewie spills that Finn insisted they go get her.
Nope.
"I have to get back to Jakku."
"Han told me. Dear child, I see your eyes - you already know the truth. Whomever you're waiting for on Jakku, they're never coming back."
This is similar to what Ren tells her in the next movie, though less specific.
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The humor in Star Wars has always ridden a very fine line between laughing with the movie and laughing at the movie. Depending on your point of view, like how well you suspend disbelief, most or all of it comes across as self-parody, even though it wasn't intended that way.
Here's an example of ROTJ very clearly crossing the line. Chewie's Tarzan Yell. It was an inside joke (similar to the Wilhelm scream) but way too obvious to the non-film-nerds.
In the fantasy genre (which I'd classify Star Wars) the humor is the hardest thing to nail because once you cross that line you rip the audience out of the picture and they just treat it as an expensive B-movie.
Sure, you want them to have fun, but not at the movie's expense.
This is an example of what I call pitch-perfect Star Wars humor.
It's whimsical but not overly so. It's true to character, with Chewie acting aggressive, and it helps add a sense of extra color to the SW universe. (and a mouse droid pops up in Last Jedi as well)
Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings crossed the line with some of the Legolas/Gimli antics, like Legolas surfing down the steps.
It's all very subjective, of course, but I'm just saying the use of humor in fantasy when suspension of disbelief is so fragile is risky.
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We were talking about Maz's next line. "Whomever you're waiting for on Jakku, they're never coming back. But there's someone who still could."
Rey thinks she's talking about Luke, but there's someone else who's also left her behind, just a few moments earlier, and a short time later...
REY: Finn. What are you doing here?!
FINN: We came back for you.
Who missed it? Most people I've talked to understood it, or even agreed with it, but thought it did not belong in a Star Wars film. I personally didn't mind it, but as I've said earlier, I think it was irresponsible of the characters and hokey in the way we are to assume everything works out for everybody - i.e., the animals remain free, and the slaves don't spend the next few months fixing he mess Rose and Finn made.
There are plenty of legitimate conversations about the film's faults going on. You may have to wade though some hyperbolic language, but it's there. The RLM review of the film is probably one of the most rational, as they avoid complaining about the blatant politics in the film, and don't get upset and laugh at the film.
RLM is probably the closest to where I stand on the movie of all the reviews I've read/seen, but they get a bit more nitpicky on things that wouldn't have been a problem (and didn't bother me especially) without the more foundational and fundamental flaws of the film.
Since people have been ranking the movies, how I'd rank them right now (although TLJ will probably go up when I've watched it more, and only the last two movies on the list do I consider bad, the rest rank from good to amazing).
1. ESB
2. TFA
3. A New Hope
4. ROTJ
5. TLJ
6. Rogue One
7. Revenge of the Sith
8. The Phantom Menace
9. Attack of the Clones
1. ESB
2. TFA
3. A New Hope
4. ROTJ
5. TLJ
6. Rogue One
7. Revenge of the Sith
8. The Phantom Menace
9. Attack of the Clones
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