The age of the antihero

[Crazy Eddie]

To find the ship before the Romulans do. Salvage it if possible, destroy it if necessary.

The Shenzhou fits two scenarios. The possibility of destroying her to prevent the enemy from salvaging usable parts

"Prevent the enemy from salvaging usable parts" has never been a priority for Starfleet.

Note the bolded part here: there are MANY reasons why Starfleet might destroy a starship to keep the enemy from getting it. "They might salvage some part of it" is not one of those reasons and never has been.

The last part of your question is where the devil is. Was there a good reason not to initiate it?

It is illogical to perform an action simply because you cannot think of a reason NOT to. If such action serves no constructive purpose, you are better off refraining from taking it.

To answer 'yes' to this means that there were indeed resources worth keeping 'afloat'

Obviously there were, as you yourself keep pointing out (e.g. the dilithium processor and whatever else might have been aboard that Starfleet could have used for parts).

But Starfleet isn't going to destroy the ship just to keep the KLINGONS from salvaging it, not when they still have a chance to recover it themselves. IF Shenzhou had still been warp capable and IF there was actual reason to believe that the Klingons were likely to board the ship and fly away with it, THEN they would have destroyed it to keep that from happening, or at least sabotaged the engines so the ship could no longer move.

But blowing up the ship just to keep desperate starving Klingons from scavenging spare parts? That's not their MO. Hell, Starfleet has been known to DELIBERATELY aid its enemies when they fall that far off the wagon. Those are the high-minded principals Kirk was talking about in "Corbomite Maneuver", it's the thing that compells the Enterprise to render aid to a Romulan warbird in "Timescape" and it is PRECISELY the reason why James "Let them die!" Kirk surrenders to Kronos-1 and then beams aboard to render aid instead of just opening fire on an obviously battered cruiser to protect himself and his crew.

If that was the mindset then it is an acknowledgement that something you know to be valuable is left for the enemy to take advantage of as well.

"Valuable" here is relative, though. Shenzhou's processor is valuable to Voq because he's desperate and starving. It's worthless to Kol, however, who never gives it a second look and actually doesn't care about it at all except that it gives him an opportunity to finally buy off Voq's crew with a giant bucket of KFC.

The chicken ended up being ALOT more valuable to Voq's crew than the dilithium processor.

Lest we get into another round of war stories, there's this great annecdote from Paul Tibbets about getting fished out of the sea by some islanders who were trying to figure out whether to sell him to the Japanese or the American forces in Guadalcanal. The Americans apparently made them the better offer, leading Tibbets to remark "Apparently my government believes my life is worth exactly one ten-pound sack of rice."

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Like it or not that IS the point. It is war both sides will cross lines and do desperate things.

Starfleet planning does not take Klingon desperation into account. There's no logical reason why it SHOULD. If the Klingons AS A WHOLE were desperate enough to salvage dead Starfleet ships, you might as well ask them to surrender.

Yet examples of future captains and Starfleet's use of auto-destruct were kind of being... er... well, let's just say they didn't fit.

That's exactly the point. NONE of them fit. The thing they don't fit is your theory about what SHOULD happen, as you are judging Shenzhou's crew by standards that nobody in Starfleet -- or the real world, for that matter -- have ever used.

 

[Refuge]

It is illogical to perform an action simply because you cannot think of a reason NOT to. If such action serves no constructive purpose, you are better off refraining from taking it.


Obviously there were, as you yourself keep pointing out (e.g. the dilithium processor and whatever else might have been aboard that Starfleet could have used for parts).

But Starfleet isn't going to destroy the ship just to keep the KLINGONS from salvaging it, not when they still have a chance to recover it themselves. IF Shenzhou had still been warp capable and IF there was actual reason to believe that the Klingons were likely to board the ship and fly away with it, THEN they would have destroyed it to keep that from happening, or at least sabotaged the engines so the ship could no longer move.

But blowing up the ship just to keep desperate starving Klingons from scavenging spare parts? That's not their MO. Hell, Starfleet has been known to DELIBERATELY aid its enemies when they fall that far off the wagon. Those are the high-minded principals Kirk was talking about in "Corbomite Maneuver", it's the thing that compells the Enterprise to render aid to a Romulan warbird in "Timescape" and it is PRECISELY the reason why James "Let them die!" Kirk surrenders to Kronos-1 and then beams aboard to render aid instead of just opening fire on an obviously battered cruiser to protect himself and his crew.


"Valuable" here is relative, though. Shenzhou's processor is valuable to Voq because he's desperate and starving. It's worthless to Kol, however, who never gives it a second look and actually doesn't care about it at all except that it gives him an opportunity to finally buy off Voq's crew with a giant bucket of KFC.

The salvaging of the dilithium processor unit was specific to the enemy's needs. To enable whatever purpose they have and will pursue, agreed. Disabling units, parts, locking them, destroying them is not illogical. It is constructive. Its constructive purpose is to not give the other side advantage. Do we even know what else was exploited by Voq and L'Rell? If Starfleet intended to retrieve the Shenzhou they had months to do so. It was too hard for Starfleet to comtemplate but it was a doddle for Voq and Kol and L'Rell, for starving Klingons to pop aboard at will??

What are we supposed to think the default protocol Starfleet had then? Take whatever personal items you want from the vessel guys. Leave the military stuff. Hey leave the whole ship, we might come back for it later when this war thing quietens down. That isn't believable, (in my opinion). I don't even think it is compatible with other Trek examples, (admittedly for or against) most of which are not relevant to a Federation/Klingon war set in the past. The Admiral of the Europa hit auto destruct at obvious risk and loss to his and his crews life just to disadvantage the enemy. Apparently Lorca did the same, (well there is a difference he lived), yet all this wussy nonsense about the delicate status of the Shenzhou. Yes I know each case has its differences as does the Glenn but they have similarities too. It just makes the scenes where we do see Voq and L'Rell on the Shenzhou surreal.

As for valuable items, I agree that is relative. Yet in a war scenario, nothing can be taken for granted. Got to say though - telescope! When that becomes so important that military reason is lower priority you have to wonder how stupid you have to be to get into Starfleet or how clumsy the writing is.

Oh and high minded principles guiding our protagonists? Like they would be too high minded to blow up the ship to give advantage to starving Klingons? Those in 'Discovery' seem to have a MO of their own timeline. Not too high minded to booby trap the dead. Not too high minded to do a lot of questionable things but too stupid to scuttle a ship

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

but aren't you providing an example that is purposely unreasonable?

Yes. Isn't that exactly what you and others have done in suggesting that at some point between "Battle At The Binary Stars" and "The Butcher's Knife Cares Not For The Lamb's Cry" Starfleet sent someone especially to retrieve the telescope from the Shenzhou's wreck, and do nothing else?

Like it or not that IS the point. It is war both sides will cross lines and do desperate things. They will salvage another vessel, they will beam aboard another vessel and get into hand to hand combat. They will booby trap bodies. The one part that was taken from the Shenzhou could be a deal breaker or not. It only takes one mistake.

Starfleet doesn't think in such terms of "scorch the earth to leave the enemy nothing, not so much as a single measly scrap." It has never been established as their modus operandi, whether in peacetime or wartime. You can call them naive and dumb for it—and I'm sure Lorca would probably agree with you—but it would be more out of their character than in it, based on what we'd seen before. What's more, such naiveté was deliberately highlighted as a central element of that character up to this point in this story. It wasn't an oversight on the writers' part; it was intentional.

Yes, like it or not, that Starfleet was unprepared for war and completely bungled their initial response to the Klingon threat, and that it cost them dearly, is one of the main points to the story of "The Vulcan Hello"/"Battle At The Binary Stars"! It's not a plot hole...it's the plot!

Sorry Mim I don't understand what that word play all about, lol.

It's very simple. Point me out an example of Starfleet destroying or trying to destroy an outdated ship that was already disabled, just to avoid any chance of someone exploiting its wreck, where they didn't already know someone was currently trying or had recently tried. I don't think there is even one such example, let alone enough to establish a clear pattern. The closest I can think of is the Enterprise in STIII, which meets the first two conditions but not the rest. I'm open to the possibility I've overlooked something somewhere, though.

-MMoM

 

[Crazy Eddie]

The salvaging of the dilithium processor unit was specific to the enemy's needs. To enable whatever purpose they have and will pursue, agreed. Disabling units, parts, locking them, destroying them is not illogical. It is constructive.

Only when you can accurately predict what the enemy's highly specific needs are. THIS would be like the Navy scuttling the USS Cole after the bombing on the off chance that the Yemenese Air Force suddenly found itself in desperate need for a fanblade from a General Electric CF6 turbine.

Funny thing about the CF6: it's one of the most common turbofan engines in the world, so common that you can find spare parts for it just about anywhere. The LM2500 engine on the USS Cole, which is derived directly from it, uses most of the same parts, with additional components to boost efficiency. While preventing Al Qaida operatives from capturing an intact LM2500 and/or the warship it's attached to would definitely be something the U.S. Navy would care about, preventing them from capturing the the debris of a smashed and unusable LM2500 would be a massive waste of time.

Its constructive purpose is to not give the other side advantage.

The dilithium processor did not give Voq and L'Rell an advantage.
The dilithium processor did, in fact, give Voq's crew a large bucket of fried chicken.
Preventing Klingons from eating fried chicken is not, in my opinion, a logical use of Starfleet's resources.

Do we even know what else was exploited by Voq and L'Rell?

Depending on whether or not Voq is Ash, I imagine they also borrowed some condoms from sickbay...

It was too hard for Starfleet to comtemplate but it was a doddle for Voq and Kol and L'Rell, for starving Klingons to pop aboard at will??

Right, because conducting a space walk with the intention of salvaging a single component from a completely disabled warp engine is TOTALLY the same thing as diverting an entire starship away from the front lines during wartime for three to five weeks to conduct salvage operations of a derelict starship.

What are we supposed to think the default protocol Starfleet had then? Take whatever personal items you want from the vessel guys. Leave the military stuff.

What "military stuff?" It's the fucking dilithium processor... that's technobabble for "the thing that holds the crystals." Every starship in the universe uses dilithium to regulate its matter/antimatter reaction and it is, under various names, a standard component of literally every warp engine ever built. Near as we can tell, the only thing unique about it is that it's made out of a material that won't disintegrate in the reaction chamber.

It's not like Voq salvaged a nuclear warhead from the armory or something. They literally broke into an abandoned starship and the only think they took was this thing:

Not a warp core. Not a phaser bank. Not a warp coil. Not a photon torpedo.
They took the fucking doodad that holds the dilithium crystal.

And you're saying they should have destroyed the entire ship just to prevent THAT? Even after it has been pointed out to you, again and again, that it didn't actually MATTER because Kol showed up and saved them all anyway?

Oh and high minded principles guiding our protagonists? Like they would be too high minded to blow up the ship to give advantage to starving Klingons?

That depends. Do you consider "not starving to death due to a complete lack of logistical support" a potentially war-winning strategic advantage?

 

[Refuge]

Yes. Isn't that exactly what you and others have done in suggesting that at some point between "Battle At The Binary Stars" and "The Butcher's Knife Cares Not For The Lamb's Cry" Starfleet sent someone especially to retrieve the telescope from the Shenzhou's wreck, and do nothing else?


Starfleet doesn't think in such terms of "scorch the earth to leave the enemy nothing, not so much as a single measly scrap." It has never been established as their modus operandi, whether in peacetime or wartime. You can call them naive and dumb for it—and I'm sure Lorca would probably agree with you—but it would be more out of their character than in it, based on what we'd seen before. What's more, such naiveté was deliberately highlighted as a central element of that character up to this point in this story. It wasn't an oversight on the writers' part; it was intentional.

Yes, like it or not, that Starfleet was unprepared for war and completely bungled their initial response to the Klingon threat, and that it cost them dearly, is one of the main points to the story of "The Vulcan Hello"/"Battle At The Binary Stars"! It's not a plot hole...it's the plot!


It's very simple. Point me out an example of Starfleet destroying or trying to destroy an outdated ship that was already disabled, just to avoid any chance of someone exploiting its wreck, where they didn't already know someone was currently trying or had recently tried. I don't think there is even one such example, let alone enough to establish a clear pattern. The closest I can think of is the Enterprise in STIII, which meets the first two conditions but not the rest. I'm open to the possibility I've overlooked something somewhere, though.

-MMoM

"Yes. Isn't that exactly what you and others have done in suggesting that at some point between "Battle At The Binary Stars" and "The Butcher's Knife Cares Not For The Lamb's Cry" Starfleet sent someone especially to retrieve the telescope from the Shenzhou's wreck, and do nothing else?"

Well I have personally offered TWO possibilities of when the telescope was retrieved. Two obvious windows of opportunity that don't require temporal time travel. I don't believe our examples are purposely unreasonable.

"Starfleet doesn't think in such terms of "scorch the earth to leave the enemy nothing, not so much as a single measly scrap." It has never been established as their modus operandi, whether in peacetime or wartime... based on what we'd seen before."

When 'Discovery' was being marketed we were specifically told that it was before (ten years) Spock, Kirk, and the USS Enterprise. Set during the Federation/Klingon war. It will (apparently) lead us to the values and development of future directives and other Trek. Apart from the series Enterprise, the happenings in 'Discovery' could very well BE the first of procedures to be followed or never to be seen again. I view it mostly as stand alone with the expectation it will morph into TOS. If that means not needing anything more than stand alone understanding that's what I operate on, so really I personally am hopeless at sourcing most Trek or don't find the need to. (Though it was pointed out to me that in the greater discussion of 'anti-heroes' being a product of the times, comparisons to Trek heroes (or not) is inevitable. Regards specific action and plot that is not Discovery? You will have to ask others for their comparisons and examples).

I watch the 'Discovery' Trek has already shown us - in its time - that destructive policies are accepted by Starfleet. Crews blown up. Bodies booby trapped. Fire first. Torture sentient aliens. Vulcans blowing themselves up. Whatever it takes. And I'm sorry but knowing the Europa, the Buran, and the Glenn were destroyed, circumstances withstanding, I factor into it. When you show that as warfare, be consistent. Scuttling the Shenzhou would've been consistent.

 

[Refuge]

What "military stuff?" It's the fucking dilithium processor... that's technobabble for "the thing that holds the crystals." Every starship in the universe uses dilithium to regulate its matter/antimatter reaction and it is, under various names, a standard component of literally every warp engine ever built. Near as we can tell, the only thing unique about it is that it's made out of a material that won't disintegrate in the reaction chamber.

It's not like Voq salvaged a nuclear warhead from the armory or something. They literally broke into an abandoned starship and the only think they took was this thing

So the argument here is based on the resolution? Because the part that was needed (and it was needed) is plentiful it takes away its 'advantage'? Forget for a minute that a resource that is plentiful can be a deal breaker if you don't have it. Air, water. It matters nothing that every starship or warbird or taxi shuttle has a dilithium processor if you don't. What mattered was that the enemy used the Shenzhou's. If the merit of not doing something relies on a redundant resolution then that is weak.

The only arguments for not destroying the vessel are that it was worthless or that it was going to be salvaged at a later date. BOTH of those support destroying the ship! If it was worthless - blow up the bloody thing. If it had value for salvage don't let the enemy use anything in it or find safe harbour in it.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

I watch the 'Discovery' Trek has already shown us - in its time - that destructive policies are accepted by Starfleet.

Yes, you've said that before. "Accepted" is not the same thing as "mandated." Nobody claimed Starfleet ordered Saru NOT to destroy the Shenzhou, only that he didn't have a good reason to bother.

Fire first.

"Starfleet does not fire first."
Source that quote.

And I'm sorry but knowing the Europa, the Buran, and the Glenn were destroyed, circumstances withstanding, I factor into it.

You are apparently unwilling to aknowledge that NONE of those ships were destroyed for the reasons you claim apply to the Shenzhou.

When you show that as warfare, be consistent.

It IS consistent. Starfleet officers blow up their own ships when they have a good reason. They didn't have a good reason to do so on the Shenzhou. Hell, they didn't even have a good reason to do it any of the literally dozen times Mudd took control of Discovery, despite Mudd HIMSELF commenting on how stupidly easy it was to blow up the ship.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

So the argument here is based on the resolution?

YOUR argument is based on the resolution. I'm simply correcting your erroneous notion as to what the resolution actually is.

The fact is, Voq did not actually gain an advantage from the dilithium processor. What he got was LEFT FOR DEAD. Kol gained no advantage from it either, since the processor didn't give him anything he didn't already have, and ultimately worked in Starfleet's favor.

If you're going to invoke hindsight, you have to look at ALL of the resulting consequences, do you not?

Because the part that was needed (and it was needed) is plentiful it takes away its 'advantage'?

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

If the merit of not doing something...

There is no merit of "not doing something." An action is either profitable or it is not. If an action costs more time or energy than it saves, if it serves no purpose or is not necessitated under the circumstances, then it is not profitable and is considered a "waste of time."

The FACTS bear out the conclusion that scuttling Shenzhou would have made no difference to the Klingon war effort; they still would have obtained the cloaking device, and most likely, the ship of the dead. They also bear out the conclusion that scuttling the Shenzhou would have turned out to be a liability for Starfleet, which no longer has a way of infiltrating the ship of the dead to gather data on the cloaking device.

Most importantly, they bear out the fact that Saru, knowing absolutely none of this, has every reason to believe that the Klingons would not be able to capture or salvage the Shenzhou before Starfleet had the chance to do so. Regardless of Voq's INTENTIONS, that assumption was ultimately the correct one.

 

[Refuge]

YOUR argument is based on the resolution. I'm simply correcting your erroneous notion as to what the resolution actually is.

The fact is, Voq did not actually gain an advantage from the dilithium processor. What he got was LEFT FOR DEAD. Kol gained no advantage from it either, since the processor didn't give him anything he didn't already have, and ultimately worked in Starfleet's favor.

If you're going to invoke hindsight, you have to look at ALL of the resulting consequences, do you not?


You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.


There is no merit of "not doing something." An action is either profitable or it is not. If an action costs more time or energy than it saves, if it serves no purpose or is not necessitated under the circumstances, then it is not profitable and is considered a "waste of time."

The FACTS bear out the conclusion that scuttling Shenzhou would have made no difference to the Klingon war effort; they still would have obtained the cloaking device, and most likely, the ship of the dead. They also bear out the conclusion that scuttling the Shenzhou would have turned out to be a liability for Starfleet, which no longer has a way of infiltrating the ship of the dead to gather data on the cloaking device.

Most importantly, they bear out the fact that Saru, knowing absolutely none of this, has every reason to believe that the Klingons would not be able to capture or salvage the Shenzhou before Starfleet had the chance to do so. Regardless of Voq's INTENTIONS, that assumption was ultimately the correct one.

The fact is the enemy were provided with something they needed from the Shenzhou. That is fact.

Giving the enemy something they need is an advantage.

The facts bear out the conclusion that the Klingons salvaged something from Starfleet. The (your) argument has now gone from deciding that what was salvaged just may have happened to be of redundant consequence so that makes it all okay to it would have been a liability to Starfleet to scuttle the ship. This end justifying the means logic is amusing!

Anyway, we do not agree it is so obvious - fact.

 

[fireproof78]

Whatever it takes. And I'm sorry but knowing the Europa, the Buran, and the Glenn were destroyed, circumstances withstanding, I factor into it. When you show that as warfare, be consistent. Scuttling the Shenzhou would've been consistent.

No, it wouldn't have, since the circumstances were not the same.

Also, if there is one aspect about warfare, is that consistency is sometimes difficult.

 

[Refuge]

No, it wouldn't have, since the circumstances were not the same.

Also, if there is one aspect about warfare, is that consistency is sometimes difficult.

Please apply your second sentence to the first

 

[fireproof78]

Please apply your second sentence to the first

Which is why the Shenzhou was left. They had no reason to assume the Klingons would use it and would come back with reinforcements. There was no reason to destroy the Shenzhou like the Glen or the Buran, as has been stated before.

Simple logic

 

[Refuge]

Which is why the Shenzhou was left. They had no reason to assume the Klingons would use it and would come back with reinforcements. There was no reason to destroy the Shenzhou like the Glen or the Buran, as has been stated before.

Simple logic

There was reason, as has been stated before even if it was not consistent as in 100 percent the same as the Glenn, Buran or Europa, (they're not even consistent with each other). There was still method. This argument that Starfleet don't do things because they are stupid is sad. It's war. Ships get damaged. So in all its illogical wisdom Starfleet leaves a vessel with possible replacement parts? They don't predict the enemy might be in the area after having fought in it?

 

[fireproof78]

There was reason, as has been stated before even if it was not consistent as in 100 percent the same as the Glenn, Buran or Europa, (they're not even consistent with each other). There was still method. This argument that Starfleet don't do things because they are stupid is sad. It's war. Ships get damaged. So in all its illogical wisdom Starfleet leaves a vessel with possible replacement parts? They don't predict the enemy might be in the area after having fought in it?

Or they thought there were still in Federation territory and could easily retrieve it, only to find out that it was Klingon territory now. Since these things happen in real life, I have no problem believing them in a TV show.

YMMV and all that.

 

[AlanC9]

This argument that Starfleet don't do things because they are stupid is sad.

No one made any such argument.

 

[ralfy]

Fixed it for you.

You mean "hero."

 

[cultcross]

Oh

It is so non Vulcan though.

That was Spocks entire arc, through series, Kolinhar and meeting V'Ger in TMP, self sacrifice, rebirth through his friends acting most illogically, "logic is the beginning of wisdom not the end", and then working passionately for reunification. The Spock character arc is about moving from logic to wisdom, moving from unflinching ideology to emotional intelligence. His appearance in ST09 was the perfect culmination of that.

 

[fireproof78]

You mean "hero."

Nope, I meant what I wrote. Humans are irrational beings and just as capable of being a Khan as a Kirk. We would love to believe that we are the heroes of our stories but we are capable of great evil and irrational behavior.

 

[Megapolis]

. . . with destruction only being a last resort.

Which proves that Starfleet was prepared to destroy its equipment to keep it from falling into enemy hands.

And the only reason they left the Pegasus behind in the first place was because they thought it was vaporized in a matter-antimatter explosion.

none of them are "secrets."

Apparently, "secrets" aren't the only things useful to an enemy, as it became evident from the Shenzhou's dilithium processing unit.

Behold the dialog from Dead Stop:

ARCHER: We can give them either three warp coils, five deuterium injectors or two hundred litres of warp plasma.
TUCKER: I wouldn't recommend giving up any hardware we can't replace.
ARCHER: Plasma?
TUCKER: I think we can spare it.​

Clearly the debate is not about Starfleet's ability to replace its spareable hardware but about not giving enemy an advantage of potentially repairing its disabled ship in the absence of a rescue due to the ongoing war, and helping the war effort as the result.

No.

Such as?

Yes. Standard procedure is evidently to leave the ship behind to be recovered at a later time. Now that hostilities with the Klingons are simmering down, it's entirely possible that Shenzhou might wind up being repaired and pressed back into service after all.

Evidently, it ended up allowing Klingons to repair their ship, considering how important the component is: the difference between a repair and being stranded in the absence of a rescue.

. . . to salvage one particular component from one particular Starfleet wreck because they were desperate. It was not portrayed as something typical of Klingons that they would usually do just because they could, or that they were employing as some larger organized strategy for gaining advantage from Starfleet tech. There was no specific reason to expect it to happen, from the Shenzhou crew's point of view, and thus no reason to go to the extra effort of destroying her wreck in expectation of it happening.

An enemy being desperate during a war time is not something to be expected?

Unless I am mistaken and someone can point out an example that hasn't yet been raised, we have never seen auto-destruct employed prophylactically as a preventative measure against the mere potential of exploitation in the absence of there having already affirmatively been a confirmed attempt by a hostile force to gain control of the vessel in question, or one actively in progress. That is why citing this definition as evidence that the Shenzhou would have been destroyed is misleading.

If you recall, it was originally brought up in reference to what Archer claimed to be his Starfleet orders in "The Catwalk."

Besides, a high risk of exploitation by an enemy such as in the case of the Shenzhou, which required evacuation, would lead to the same scenario. Therefore, auto-destruct would serve the same purpose: to prevent the ship from falling into enemy hands. There is nothing misleading about that.

there are MANY reasons why Starfleet might destroy a starship to keep the enemy from getting it.

Clearly the reason is to prevent an enemy from gaining an advantage. As the case with the Shenzhou's dilithium processing unit has shown, it gave the enemy an advantage of repairing their ship, which could otherwise have been stranded in the absence of a rescue.

It is illogical to perform an action simply because you cannot think of a reason NOT to. If such action serves no constructive purpose, you are better off refraining from taking it.

Out of context. The purpose, as it's been brought up by others, would be to keep the Shenzhou from falling into enemy hands to gain an advantage of repairing their ship and helping the war effort.

But Starfleet isn't going to destroy the ship just to keep the KLINGONS from salvaging it, not when they still have a chance to recover it themselves.

Isn't one of the arguments that Shenzhou is an old ship with replaceable hardware? And the main purpose of auto-destruct is to keep the ship from falling into enemy hands, which is clearly to prevent an enemy from gaining an advantage. Salvaging the Shenzhou for its dilithium processing unit for repairs as opposed to possibly being left stranded can be considered an advantage.

But blowing up the ship just to keep desperate starving Klingons from scavenging spare parts? That's not their MO.

Starfleet's "MO" is to keep their ships from falling into enemy hands. Why else if not to prevent an enemy from gaining an advantage? An enemy salvaging Starfleet ships for parts goes with the territory so to speak.

"Valuable" here is relative, though. Shenzhou's processor is valuable to Voq because he's desperate and starving.

It's a difference between repairing the ship or being left stranded unless someone rescues you.

Starfleet planning does not take Klingon desperation into account.

Starfleet's planning doesn't take an enemy becoming desperate during a war time into account?

. . . standards that nobody in Starfleet -- or the real world, for that matter -- have ever used.

Scuttling:

Scuttling may be performed to dispose of an abandoned, old, or captured vessel; to prevent the vessel from becoming a navigation hazard; as an act of self-destruction to prevent the ship from being captured by an enemy force. . . .

[. . .]

In April 1861, the United States Navy steam frigate USS Merrimack was among several ships Union forces set afire or scuttled at the Gosport Navy Yard (now Norfolk Naval Shipyard) in Portsmouth, Virginia, to keep them from falling into Confederate hands at the outbreak of the American Civil War. The unsuccessful attempt at scuttling Merrimack enabled the Confederate States Navy to raise and rebuild her as the broadside ironclad CSS Virginia. Shortly after her famous engagement with the U.S Navy monitor USS Monitor in the Battle of Hampton Roads in March 1862, the Confederates scuttled Virginia to keep her from being captured by Union forces.​

At least that's how I understand the debate.