Is the 2009 movie a nostalgia film?

[fireproof78]

ST 2009 did pay homage to TOS in the ways that you described. But those similarities were essentially superficial. The movie moved at warp speed with all the explosions, shoot outs, etc. It didn't have the same feel as TOS.

I am going to borrow a line that Kirk spoke in "The Return of the Archons":
"The original Landru programmed it with all his knowledge but he couldn't give it his wisdom, his compassion, his understanding, his soul, Mister Spock."

JJ Abrams may have directed the ST09 movie with the knowledge of everything about TOS that came before, and he may have genuinely tried to pay homage to TOS; however his movie lacked the soul that made TOS TOS. Maybe it just wasn't possible.

Having said that, I still found the movie fun to watch but not nostalgic.

I think it had the soul a lot more than it will ever be given credit for.

Largely because, what made Star Trek special was in the characters, and their connection with each other. ST 09 took those connections and changed them, allowed the characters to explore new relationships. In essence, Star Trek grew a little bit, changed up the dynamic, and went on to explore what made those relationships special through those changes.

I listen to a couple of podcasts and there were some points made that felt applicable. The first one was on the idea of Star Trek as a friend that we don't want to change. In real life we would want our friends to grow and change and become something different, even if we don't agree with the choices made, they are still a friend.

The second podcast was in terms of Star Wars, but I think the attitude still applies. The original series and original Star Wars film could not be perfectly replicated. Why? Because mistakes would be made that they would learn from as they go. Like a band that gets back together, they will make different mistakes because they've already learned.

So, in one way-you're right. The spirit couldn't be captured. In another way, it did because it focused on the characters, the relationship against the backdrop of action/adventure series.

That too is in the eye of the beholder.

Sure, it's subjective. Which, and call me crazy, but that's why I will appreciate the Paramount and CBS rather than random fans.

 

[Tenacity]

Sure, it's subjective. Which, and call me crazy, but that's why I will appreciate the Paramount and CBS rather than random fans.

First let me say that I'm not trying to bad mouth your position, although mine differs. I do understand yours.

Paramount and CBS's motivation is a commercially viable product that generates money, that's why both TOS and ENT ended when they did. It had nothing to do with in-universe enjoyment of the series, or any artistic considerations. They weren't making enough money.

I understand the money aspect and the show would not be produced without it, but their motivations are not mine.

I also understand the position of the fans, they're concerned with the universe that's been created, it's continuation, and their personal enjoyment of it.

That's closer to my position.

 

[fireproof78]

First let me say that I'm not trying to bad mouth your position, although mine differs. I do understand yours.

Paramount and CBS's motivation is a commercially viable product that generates money, that's why both TOS and ENT ended when they did. It had nothing to do with in-universe enjoyment of the series, or any artistic considerations. They weren't making enough money.

I understand the money aspect and the show would not be produced without it, but their motivations are not mine.

I also understand the position of the fans, they're concerned with the universe that's been created, it's continuation, and their personal enjoyment of it.

That's closer to my position.

And that's why I understand CBS and Paramount-their position is consistent and has been since GR started it all. Make a commercially viable product that entertains. I can understand that and appreciate that, because there are times when I want to make more money as well. That's a position that I can personally identify with.

Now, compared to the fan base, who's interests, desires and reactions to each iteration not only vary wildly but inconsistently across the board. And, I'm not just speaking from this board or other boards. My wife can't stand most of Star Trek, finds TWOK boring but enjoyed ST 09 and DS9. My dad only likes TOS, the TOS films and enjoyed ST 09. He hasn't watched a frame of TNG, DS9, VOY or ENT. He has no interest in them.

What interests one fan may be completely opposite another. That's fine and dandy, but it is quite difficult to make a commercially viable product when you have those disparate interests. It's capricious, at best. One I can understand and the other can defy explanation.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

NuTrek 1 had the same characters and uniform colours but other than that there wasn't any other sort of homage. STID was just a copy of TWOK.

 

[F. King Daniel]

STID was just a copy of TWOK.

Yeah loved it in Wrath of Khan when the evil admiral kidnapped Khan's people and forced him to do his bidding, and when Into Darkness reused the Genesis Device plot device it was just tired.

 

[shapeshifter]

One of my favorite parts of Wrath of Khan is when that huge dreadnought falls out of the sky and crashes into San Francisco!

 

[fireproof78]

NuTrek 1 had the same characters and uniform colours but other than that there wasn't any other sort of homage. STID was just a copy of TWOK.

Action and adventure with social commentary-yes there is an homage. There is Kirk and Bones forming their bond. There is a red shirt buying it, impossible odds being beaten, and on and on.

Also, ST ID was a copy of TWOK? Because of a 2 minute scene? O_o

I guess I missed the part were Kirk was demoted in TWOK.

 

[Ovation]

STID was just a copy of TWOK.

Umm...no. Not at all.

 

[Vger23]

Yeah loved it in Wrath of Khan when the evil admiral kidnapped Khan's people and forced him to do his bidding, and when Into Darkness reused the Genesis Device plot device it was just tired.

One of my favorite parts of Wrath of Khan is when that huge dreadnought falls out of the sky and crashes into San Francisco!

You guys have it all wrong.

Best part of Wrath of Khan was when a small incognito crew went to the Klingon home world aboard a shuttle and tried to capture Khan for murdering a bunch of Starfleet brass back in San Francisco.

 

[Vger23]

To this day, I still think Star Trek 2009 is one of the most fun, entertaining, thrilling movies I've ever seen in the theater. It doesn't hold a special place in my heart like the original cast films, but that's an impossible order.

Overall, on its own merits, it was an awesome sci-fi adventure film with tons of heart and spectacle.

 

[Smellmet]

NuTrek 1 had the same characters and uniform colours but other than that there wasn't any other sort of homage. STID was just a copy of TWOK.

I think the kobayashi maru scene with kirk eating an apple no less, says otherwise.

STID being a copy of TWOK however, is one of the most tired, incorrect views on these boards.

 

[BillJ]

NuTrek 1 had the same characters and uniform colours but other than that there wasn't any other sort of homage. STID was just a copy of TWOK.

Isn't this a contradictory statement?

 

[fireproof78]

Stumbled upon this article regarding Khan, Kirk and Marcus. The interesting thing about these films is that they become more interesting the more you know about Star Trek lore, not less.

 

[Ovation]

Stumbled upon this article regarding Khan, Kirk and Marcus. The interesting thing about these films is that they become more interesting the more you know about Star Trek lore, not less.

An interesting read. Into Darkness is already my favourite Trek film—I think I like it even more now. Wish I had time for a rewatch. Maybe next week.

 

[Mudd]

Kind of.

All Star Trek is nostalgia entertainment now.

 

[shapeshifter]

Best part of Wrath of Khan was when a small incognito crew went to the Klingon home world aboard a shuttle and tried to capture Khan for murdering a bunch of Starfleet brass back in San Francisco.

Oh, you mean that time when Uhura was actually given something useful to do - use her linguistic skills to try to deescalate the situation with the Klingon's. Yep, one of TWOK's greatest moments.

 

[Tenacity]

Yeah loved it in Wrath of Khan when the evil admiral kidnapped Khan's people and forced him to do his bidding

Khan damaging the Enterprise thereby forcing a officer to enter a radioactive chamber was a rip off of TWOK.

Someone yelling Khan's name in frustration was a rip off of TWOK.

A evil Starfleet Admiral who built a secret giant warship was a rip off of the Trek novel Battlestations!

Having a female character strip down for no describable reason is a rip off of any number of teen sex farces.

The tiny subplot of kidnapped Khan's people would appear to have been a new and fresh idea on the part of the writer's.

Bravo.

 

[Mudd]

NuTrek 1 had the same characters and uniform colours but other than that there wasn't any other sort of homage. STID was just a copy of TWOK.

You needed to actually pay attention to the movies.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Khan damaging the Enterprise thereby forcing a officer to enter a radioactive chamber was a rip off of TWOK.

Someone yelling Khan's name in frustration was a rip off of TWOK.

A evil Starfleet Admiral who built a secret giant warship was a rip off of the Trek novel Battlestations!

Having a female character strip down for no describable reason is a rip off of any number of teen sex farces.

The tiny subplot of kidnapped Khan's people would appear to have been a new and fresh idea on the part of the writer's.

Bravo.

Everything on Nibiru, everything on Kronos, everyone's motivations for the entire movie, the entire plot that bares zero resemblance to WoK...

But yeah. One death scene (reached in different way, with different lessons learned and a different outcome) and one stupid scream and it's a total rip off.

 

[Smellmet]

Khan damaging the Enterprise thereby forcing a officer to enter a radioactive chamber was a rip off of TWOK.

Someone yelling Khan's name in frustration was a rip off of TWOK.

And the combined running time of this out of a two hour film is...